Four year old losing weight (big thread inside)
I'm having trouble pasting the link about my thyroid piggy (ends up as just guinealynx.com without rest of URL), but you can search for author "Tracy" with keywords "Inca" and "thyroid."
I reread our case, and hers was presumed hyperthyroidism because T4 was normal but everything else "classic thyroid" per my exotic vet, plus a lump on/in her neck. The medication is tapazole, and it can take some adjustments to calculate best dose. It seemed to reduce her rapid heart (somewhat) and may have slowed Inca's weight loss. It is a forever medication, so part of me regrets that I tapered her off the med when she seemed angry about it and it didn't seem like it was helping. It probably was helping, and I'm grateful she lived a while post-diagnosis and acted okay until her final hours (probable "thyroid storm").
Like your piggy, I did not want to do surgery when she was so lightweight, plus she had issues after some diagnostic procedures at the clinic. Meanwhile, this may or may not be comforting: I recently had an elder piggy who lived around 600g several months. Lower than that is very scary for me. I tend to focus on quality of life when options are limited. Reading your post, I do remember reading about the radiation; we tried medication first.
Certainly I wish you well as you make decisions with your vets. And sending a virtual pet to your piggy.
I reread our case, and hers was presumed hyperthyroidism because T4 was normal but everything else "classic thyroid" per my exotic vet, plus a lump on/in her neck. The medication is tapazole, and it can take some adjustments to calculate best dose. It seemed to reduce her rapid heart (somewhat) and may have slowed Inca's weight loss. It is a forever medication, so part of me regrets that I tapered her off the med when she seemed angry about it and it didn't seem like it was helping. It probably was helping, and I'm grateful she lived a while post-diagnosis and acted okay until her final hours (probable "thyroid storm").
Like your piggy, I did not want to do surgery when she was so lightweight, plus she had issues after some diagnostic procedures at the clinic. Meanwhile, this may or may not be comforting: I recently had an elder piggy who lived around 600g several months. Lower than that is very scary for me. I tend to focus on quality of life when options are limited. Reading your post, I do remember reading about the radiation; we tried medication first.
Certainly I wish you well as you make decisions with your vets. And sending a virtual pet to your piggy.
- Lynx
- Celebrate!!!
Here you go:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40942
Be sure you are viewing the forums as guinealynx.info (not .com) or you will have problems.
I think your topic, Tracy, should be very helpful to Squiggles.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40942
Be sure you are viewing the forums as guinealynx.info (not .com) or you will have problems.
I think your topic, Tracy, should be very helpful to Squiggles.
I can't thank you all enough. That thread, those are exactly his symptoms. His coat, despite how sickly and horribly skinny he looks, is perfect. No hair loss, so shiny, and not ruffled. He has a high heart rate, and ever since the lump appeared, his appetite has been insane and he's dropping faster. The T4, tested multiple times, has been negative. This thread is him to a T. Despite the Emeraid (he prefers that over CC), and I was giving him crushed oats from a pill crusher, he still never put on weight. You have been so helpful, and while I'm still worried about the vet visit tomorrow, this has made me feel a bit better.
Virtual hugs to all of you.
Virtual hugs to all of you.
Alright so update. Gave my vet the medical record since January, including the suggestion response I received on Saturday (He took one look at that and was “No” instantly.) He did his own T4 and aspirated the lump to get his own sample. He said between the rapid weight loss (he was 684 today at the vet, I expected much worse, but still, not good, he was 725 when he last saw the exotic on the 1st), the hunger, the accelerated heart rate, even said the slightly elevated liver, it’s all part of thyroid. I’m waiting on the results, but he asked if I did everything from ultrasound to xray to echocardiogram, and I said yes, and he said “They really got you good” with a frown. I kind of feel like a dope putting him through all this with no results and the exotic vet just wanted test after test (Or maybe she herself didn’t know, I did mention above that I felt she was unsure), but you do anything to try to figure out why your animal is ill. He is such a champ, though. Even went through three session of accupuncture with B12 injections and never had to be sedated for anything.
He was going up and down his ramp today and then was playing in his small hay pile. I have him in the playpen for now to keep him separated from his brother to relax, then during the day I put them back together for a bit, then put his brother in the pen and him in the cage, etc, etc.
Thank you for all the replies and support. Hoping for good news, but still really worried.
He was going up and down his ramp today and then was playing in his small hay pile. I have him in the playpen for now to keep him separated from his brother to relax, then during the day I put them back together for a bit, then put his brother in the pen and him in the cage, etc, etc.
Thank you for all the replies and support. Hoping for good news, but still really worried.
Thanks, Lynx. I know. Some vets, though, you have to be careful over. I don't think she was trying to get what she could out of me, but I do feel she lacked knowledge over guinea pigs a bit. Yes, he wants to, but he also says he wants to try to get a safe dose because he's worried on how powerful it could be. Hopefully today or tomorrow his readings will come up and they'll see where we go from there. I'll continue to do what I can for now with syringe feeding and monitor him as best as I can.
Wishing you well. I easily and palpably remember the stress and helpless feelings with my Inca, desperate to figure out something to help her. Sounds like your guy is acting alright, which I suspect is comforting to some extent. Hoping tapazole might help -- can be tricky to achieve correct dose. Will follow along with continued support.
He said T4 came back normal. I'm not surprised. I'm going to post his report, if that's alright. He said the only way to determine if the lump is cancerous is to do a biospy, and he is strongly against that because of his state. We are going to try the medication. Does anyone know what exactly a normal thyroid level is? When I try to research, I get mixed results.
T4 - 1.4
Cytology
INTERPRETATION: CONSISTENT WITH CYSTIC OR HEMATOMA FLUID; EVIDENCE OF HEMORRHAGE COMMENTS:
The preparation contains a predominance of macrophages on a proteinaceous background. The mild inflammation, predominance of macrophages and proteinaceous background are consistent with aspiration of cystic or seroma/hematoma fluid. The macrophages often contain phagocytized erythrocytes or hemosiderin indicating hemorrhage within the lesion. Hemorrhage can result from trauma, surgery, coagulopathy or an underlying inflammatory or neoplastic etiology.
Differentials for a cystic lesion in the ventral cervical region include cystic thyroid hyperplasia and cystic thyroid neoplasia.
Evaluation for a history of trauma as might result in the formation of a hematoma is warranted. Histopathology may be necessary to further define the lesion. Thyroid tissue is not observed. Infectious agents are not seen. No evidence of malignancy is identified.
P - o informed; labs not compatible with hyperT4, but clinical signs are; okay to try methimazole as a last resort; no need to repeat T4, as owner to all with updates.
13-Sep 2022 at 03:33 pm
#3694890 - Lester Sills, DVM
Vitals: Weight: 684.000 g
Notes
Appointment reason: might have cancer, wants 2nd opinion from Sills
Subjective:
O reports severely losing weight; see attached results from Vet Center for Birds and Exotics; suspect thyroid tumor but T4 has always been normal; ravenous appetite, losing weight, and lethargic; Metacam and milk thistle
Objective:
1.5 cm x 1.5 cm SQ mass left ventral neck/unthrifty fur/tachycardia/ravenous appetite, losing weight, and lethargic - R/O thyroid neoplasia vs other
Plan:
T4
[Reformatted - Lynx (hope you don't mind)]
T4 - 1.4
Cytology
INTERPRETATION: CONSISTENT WITH CYSTIC OR HEMATOMA FLUID; EVIDENCE OF HEMORRHAGE COMMENTS:
The preparation contains a predominance of macrophages on a proteinaceous background. The mild inflammation, predominance of macrophages and proteinaceous background are consistent with aspiration of cystic or seroma/hematoma fluid. The macrophages often contain phagocytized erythrocytes or hemosiderin indicating hemorrhage within the lesion. Hemorrhage can result from trauma, surgery, coagulopathy or an underlying inflammatory or neoplastic etiology.
Differentials for a cystic lesion in the ventral cervical region include cystic thyroid hyperplasia and cystic thyroid neoplasia.
Evaluation for a history of trauma as might result in the formation of a hematoma is warranted. Histopathology may be necessary to further define the lesion. Thyroid tissue is not observed. Infectious agents are not seen. No evidence of malignancy is identified.
P - o informed; labs not compatible with hyperT4, but clinical signs are; okay to try methimazole as a last resort; no need to repeat T4, as owner to all with updates.
13-Sep 2022 at 03:33 pm
#3694890 - Lester Sills, DVM
Vitals: Weight: 684.000 g
Notes
Appointment reason: might have cancer, wants 2nd opinion from Sills
Subjective:
O reports severely losing weight; see attached results from Vet Center for Birds and Exotics; suspect thyroid tumor but T4 has always been normal; ravenous appetite, losing weight, and lethargic; Metacam and milk thistle
Objective:
- Eyes, Ears, Nose, Throat: 1.5 cm x 1 .5 cm SQ mass left ventral neck; mild blepharitis OU
- Integument: unthrifty fur
- Musculoskeletal: Normal
- Cardiovascular: tachycardia
- Respiratory: Normal
- Digestive: Normal
- Urinary: Normal
- Genital: both testes descended
- Neurologic: Normal
- Lymphatic: Normal
- Other: Normal
- General: thin
1.5 cm x 1.5 cm SQ mass left ventral neck/unthrifty fur/tachycardia/ravenous appetite, losing weight, and lethargic - R/O thyroid neoplasia vs other
Plan:
T4
[Reformatted - Lynx (hope you don't mind)]
There is a thread about Skinny Pigs and T-4, in which I had posted the following from my vet. And on the last page of that thread, another book is mentioned, but maybe same one? I dont know authors of reference below.
My vet gave me the "norms" for thyroid in guinea pigs, from The Clinical Chemistry of Laboratory Animals textbook. I don't understand the units, but hopefully the numbers will help other owners and vets in diagnosing thyroid problems.
T4: male 2.9 +/- 0.6 ug/dL, female 3.2 +/- 0.7 ug/dL
T3: male 39 +/- 17 ng/dL, female 44 +/- 10 ng/dL
Free T4: male 1.26 +/- 0.41 ng/dL, female 1.33 +/- 0.25
Free T3: male 257 +/- 35 pg/dL, female 260 +/- 59 pg/dL
My vet gave me the "norms" for thyroid in guinea pigs, from The Clinical Chemistry of Laboratory Animals textbook. I don't understand the units, but hopefully the numbers will help other owners and vets in diagnosing thyroid problems.
T4: male 2.9 +/- 0.6 ug/dL, female 3.2 +/- 0.7 ug/dL
T3: male 39 +/- 17 ng/dL, female 44 +/- 10 ng/dL
Free T4: male 1.26 +/- 0.41 ng/dL, female 1.33 +/- 0.25
Free T3: male 257 +/- 35 pg/dL, female 260 +/- 59 pg/dL
Tracy- That's where I'm so confused, because according to the chart you posted, my pig is definitely considered hyperthyroid, and yet he still reads normal to both vets. I know T4 is difficult to get an accurate reading, so I understand, but I'm going to go with that he has it, and hopefully when he starts the medication today after I pick it up, it'll help with something. I am not sure what the dose is, but when I get the bottle, I will post it.
Lynx- No problem! Still trying to get a grasp on the forums, so feel free to edit anything you need to.
Lynx- No problem! Still trying to get a grasp on the forums, so feel free to edit anything you need to.
Started the medicine around 9 tonight. It's 0.1 twice a day, in banana flavor, because I have to try to make everything a bit better for my pets. Asked if they had carrot or cucumber, no go. So banana it is. I weighed him tonight before I gave it to him, and he hasn't fallen much since his vet visit, so that's good. I hope it works, but I'm also prepared in knowing what I have to do if it doesn't.