Our girl Cherry has taken ill and has lost some of her appetite

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:10 am


That's good news! Do continue to weigh very regularly, preferably daily at the same time each day (a.m. before feeding is generally recommended). Also continue to watch for any issues with the Baytril. Again, some pigs experience inappetence or even diarrhea while on certain antibiotics, and Baytril is one of those.

duskern

Post   » Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:42 am


Just put her on the weight today and unfortunately she has decreased quite a bit. Shen has gone from 960g sometime last week, to 820g now. I will of course up the amount of Critical care that we give her, to 5ml every 3. hours, but is there anything else I can do? I'm really scared for her life right now :(

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:45 pm


As I said, she needs to be aggressively hand-fed until she feels well enough to start eating adequately on her own. Picking at a few pellets or bits of veggies and hay is not going to help keep her weight up. That vet was wrong to suggest that you limit Critical Care in order to force her to eat on her own.

Do read the Handfeeding page if you haven't already:
http://www.guinealynx.info/handfeeding.html

duskern

Post   » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:10 am


So lots of stuff has happened with Cherry since I first started this thread. I'm sorry that I didn't do a actual follow up, but the job, two children, anxiety, and a pig that's has been sick on and off for what feels like forever, as well as other stuff, totally drained me.

Since I first started this thread she has been through more than 5 operations. Our vet is convinced that the problem is some kind of bacterial infection that remains in her bone, after removing a rotten lower front tooth way back. We have had several operations where she has been opened up and cleaned, but it's almost always the same story. We keep cleaning the wound and she slowly recovers. Everything is good until some point when she starts to get worse again, and the wound from the operation springs open, and pus starts to come out. Then we go back to cleaning the wound and trying to remove the pus.

I just talked to the vet today and she's not sure what to do at this point. She has been trying to find out about other types of antibiotics than Baytril, that can be used against such an infection, but she has come up empty. She has been looking online and asking around. She told me there was some other types of antibiotics we could try, but that it would be like a last attempt experiment, since it wasn't tested on guinea pigs.

So... I just wanted to consult you guys before going forward, to see what I could come up with. I'm really sorry about this, since she's not that old, and it seems she could have a good life if just this infection could be cured.

Any help or advice is appreciated!

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:37 am


Chlor palm has been used for guinea pigs, although it's one of those that is hard on the gut. But it penetrates bone much better than Baytril does. I'd want to give it a try.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:15 am


If you're talking about Chloramphenicol, we've used it on a couple of pigs as a last resort & it worked. I don't know what kinds of bacteria it is appropriate for.

Looking back it looks like we used it for cheek abscesses (CL) & recurrent bladder infections. I have no idea if it's appropriate in Cherry's current situation.

If you do use it, you have to wear vinyl gloves to protect yourself. It can (very rarely) cause aplastic anemia in humans due to exposure. Check with your vet.
Last edited by Bookfan on Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:16 am


I apologize that this is going to be typed badly. one thing that seemed to help with things like pododermatitis is antibiotic beads that are inserted into the wound. if you read the info on the pododermatitis page, you will see what kind of antibiotics can be used this way. I think things like penicillin can be embedded. given orally they would be dangerous.

duskern

Post   » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:34 am


Thank you so much everyone! I really appreciate your suggestions and will take them to our vet.

It seems that Chlor palm is indeed Chloramphenicol Palmitate. I guess that was what you were asking Bookfan, right? Are there guidelines regarding how to use it for guinea pigs? It seems like something worth a try bpatters!

I checked the pododermatitis page Lynx, but I couldn't really figure out how the treatment with beads could be applied to guinea pigs. There was some mentions of using this technique to treat raptors feet, but nothing about guinea pigs. Or maybe I just misunderstood it :)

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:05 am


I had heard it could be used for guinea pigs but didn't have anything I could refer to. So take the suggestion for what it is worth.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:41 am


Yeah, I'm guessing Chlor palm is the same as Chloramphenicol.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:22 pm


Chlor palm is definitely chloramphenicol.

duskern

Post   » Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:18 pm


So now I have something to take to our vet. Do you guys know how Chlor palm is administered? Is it injected or given orally? Anything else I should know before going into something like this?

duskern

Post   » Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:19 pm


Thank you Lynx. I will mention your suggestion for our vet as well!

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:26 pm


I believe it's only given orally. It will definitely need a probiotic along with it.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:35 pm


You wrote:
Our vet is convinced that the problem is some kind of bacterial infection that remains in her bone, after removing a rotten lower front tooth way back.
Some interesting results with this search:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=antibiotic+impregnanted+beads+infections&ia=web

Can be used to treat bone infections.

Antibiotic Beads
DeCoster, Thomas A. MD; Bozorgnia, Shahram MDAuthor Information
Journal of the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons: November 2008 - Volume 16 - Issue 11 - p 674-678
https://journals.lww.com/jaaos/fulltext/2008/11000/antibiotic_beads.8.aspx

This article provides some of the pros and cons and discusses when their use can be successful (in humans).

duskern

Post   » Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:20 am


Regarding the Chlor Palm. You mentioned that you have used it Bookfan. Was this also orally?

Thx for the links Lynx! It's so nice of you all to help. It's really nice to have something concrete to show to the vet. Denmark is a small country, so unfortunately the research and experience in dealing with some of the more rare cases is simply not present /:

duskern

Post   » Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:51 am


Also another thing. Do you know how long time a treatment with Chlor Palm takes? I suppose it would vary. I'm going to the vet tomorrow to have her checked, so I will have a talk with the vet about your proposals.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:02 pm


It's been a while but I think it was oral.

Here are links to my posts relating to chlor:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76306&p=2282165&hilit=chloramphenicol#p2282165

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51461&p=1542384&hilit=chloramphenicol#p1542384

duskern

Post   » Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:15 am


I just came back from the vet. Everything was ok today, but the problem still persists. I presented our vet with your ideas, but unfortunately both Chlor Palm and antibiotic beads are not something we can use in Denmark. I'm not really sure why, but I think she said that there was a legal issue of some sort with both. Chlor Palm is apparently not something they can get a hold of, since it's only legal for human use. Still, thx for the links Bookfan!

Right now we are keeping her ok by doing manual cleaning of her wound, and trying to get as much pus out of there as we can, while giving her 0.15 ml of Loxicom morning and night + 1 ml of Fibreplex twice a day. As Baytril is not really having any effect, our vet had us stop giving it to her. She had a really bad day yesterday, where she didn't want to eat by herself until late at night for some reason. We were afraid that it had something to do with pus being trapped inside the wound, in a lower level of skin where we weren't able to get it out, but the vet didn't think so. She said it was most likely because of recently stopping with the Baytril, that might have an effect on her. Thankfully she is eating just fine today, at least right now.

So, we have to figure out what else we can try. It would be such a shame to have to give her up after fighting for her life for so long, and also because she's not that old, only 3 years. She is also normally pretty good at eating and keeping her weight, so there's no immediate danger. When she's ok, she's just a normal guinea pig enjoying her life, so it's not like she's ill all the time and not feeling well.

I'm a bit down after our vet dismissed both ideas, as Chlor Palm just seemed like the perfect thing to try. I don't want to give up on Cherry just yet, so if you guys have some other ideas, I would love to hear them <3

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:53 am


The antibiotic beads are something that can be made by a vet using a suitable product and adding an antibiotic like penicillin - which, if given orally, would cause serious issues but disseminated via these beads is tolerated and can treat these issues. On the sidebar of one of the links I gave is a series of 4 videos showing how one can make the antibiotic impregnated beads.

https://journals.lww.com/jaaos/pages/videogallery.aspx?autoPlay=true&videoId=34
https://journals.lww.com/jaaos/pages/videogallery.aspx?autoPlay=true&videoId=35
https://journals.lww.com/jaaos/pages/videogallery.aspx?autoPlay=true&videoId=36
https://journals.lww.com/jaaos/pages/videogallery.aspx?autoPlay=true&videoId=37

So she recognizes Chlor Palm as choramphenicol? Chlor Palm is a brand, not the generic name of the drug.

See if you can find out what antibiotics are used in the veterinary field there.

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