Jill, Jaffa and Jupiter

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:35 am


You are being so thorough! I wish I had advice for you but from what you describe, you have everything covered (even having your vet get feedback on VIN).

I hope she turns around. The blood is worrying. I was going to suggest pyometra (an infection of the uterus) but it is much more likely to be in the digestive tract, as you guess, IMO. That you have ruled out stones with a new xray also makes it hard.

If only a small amount of blood is needed for a specific test, overclipping a toenail might be a way to get enough of it.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:08 am


My vet says they need 1ml of blood to be tested. Jill had X-rays in January all they saw was wind. If she had a stone the wind hid it. Thanks Lynx for your wise quick reply. Will keep you posted.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:39 pm


I don't think it would be irritable bowel. In humans that's a functional problem - how the colon moves, no blood. Inflammatory bowel syndrome has inflamed lining of the bowel and can produce blood. In humans it causes bloody diarrhea, but I don't know how it would manifest in pigs. Or if they even get it. Could it be from the reproductive tract? But I don't think that would cause pain when pooping/peeing.

We've had so many pigs that squeaked when peeing/pooping. As you already know, it's usually because of irritated/infected bladder or stones. And of course, there are two other possible sources - from the bowel & the uterus.

I just asked daughter about all our experiences. Two current pigs sometimes have orange urine but no pain. Carly & Grace (sisters) had blood but no pain. They were both spayed & had something wrong with their uteruses and blood stopped (for the time being - one or both eventually had ongoing stone, inflammation problems).

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:24 am


Got back from vet 90 minutes ago, seems Jill has IBD. So for 7 days she is on Bactrim 0.35mls twice a day. Prednisone 0.1ml once a day for 3 days then once every 2nd day, Metomide once a day and Pron8ture once a day.


Jill did a lot of farts, some mushy poops which he looked under microscope and saw a bacteria that was wiggling like a snake in it. Her urine was clear.


So am hoping this helps her otherwise I will be bald as I pull my hair out! Will keep you posted. He mentioned a gland that makes cortisone isn't doing it and hence the bowel problem. Hopefully this will help.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:45 am


Bacteria wiggling like a snake? This reminds me of intestinal parasites like giardia and coccidia (mentioned on the diarrhea page).

I hope the protocol you are using helps.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:05 am


Okay, for last week or two Jill has been on Prednisone 0.1ml once a day and Bactrim 0.35mls twice a day. As well as Metomide and Pron8ture.

There has been no improvements in her poops, straining and pushing and more blood on tissue from inflamed bowel. So now vet wants her to go onto Flagyl 0.3mls twice a day, Metomide and Pron8ture the same BUT wants the Prednisone to jump from 0.1ml once a day to 0.5mls once a day then 0.5mls every 2nd day.

What I wish to know is isn't that a big jump from 0.1ml to 0.5mls? She currently weighs 798grams. Here is copy of Ashley's email I got tonight. At least he is thorough.

The parasites looked typically protozoan – antibiotics usually treat bacteria.

The test done in town found no protozoan and they will probably need a fresh sample – by the time it gets to the laboratory they may be dead.

Helene has been doing research on VIN re: drugs for the protozoan. I do not know what type of protozoan parasite it is – obviously not giardia.

I think that the increase on Prednisolone frequency is a good idea (0.5mg/kg Prednisolone every day for 3 days, then every second day), and to put Jill on an anti protozoan drug such as Flagyl is the only thing I can suggest until we can get the protozoan identified. How to identify it needs a parasitologist. I will phone one at the laboratory tomorrow. Ashley.


Can someone tell me the correct dose as 0.5mg/kg is way too confusing for me. So if I gave her 0.2mls(798grams) would that be Okay? And replies much appreciated. Thanking you in advance. Especially you Lynx can always count on you!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:51 pm


I am sorry she is still having problems.

The calculator on this page I find really helpful:
http://www.guinealynx.info/calculate_dose.html#dose

You need the dosage in mg/kg (which you listed), her weight in kg (which you doubtlessly know, and the concentration of the drug in mg/ml to calculate it. So get the concentration (the dose she should be getting in ml can't be calculated without the concentration of the drug in mg/ml).

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:48 am


Just to clarify, the dose for the prednisolone is 0.5mg per Kilogram. Based on her weight she would need 0.4mg. As the strength of the medication is 5mg per ml she would need 0.08ml. Keep on every second day until symptoms resolve and then cut down to twice weekly for a couple of weeks.

This is the reply I got from the vet, when first on the drug she was on 0.1ml to jump to 0.8mls to me seems a bit of a over dose. Is this reasonable? Or over the top? Maths NOT my good subject NOT with this anyways. She is you might say 800grams.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:18 am


The 0.08 ml is pretty close to the 0.1 ml from before. Giving a dose of 0.8 mls (almost a whole ml) would be 10 times your calculated dose.

What I would do is confirm with your vet the concentration (5mg/ml) and the dosage she is aiming for per kg. If the dosage she is aiming for is 0.5mg/kg and your guinea pig weighs only 0.8 kg (800 grams), increasing to a dose of 0.8ml is too much.

NOTE: you wrote "the dose for the prednisolone is 0.5mg per Kilogram."

The dosage is in mg/kg.
The dose is in ml.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:43 am


Rang vet last night as was worried about Jill not eating, plus had appointment today to see Ashley. Seems me giving too much steroid and Flagyl has cleared Jill of the bugs and not only that her poops are now normal. All vets were amazed they were normal. Had 3 partners working on her poops and what could have caused it.

I was so worried about her I even offered her lettuce last night which she ate. I stayed up till 8.00am this morning and massaged her with toothbrush for 3 hours as she looked swelled up.
Anyways still on steroid, Off Flagyl, on Glucose, on Anaplex, still on Metomide and Pron8ture. Have to give update on Monday.
As to doses he told me what they were and I gave him some insulation tape to put on the syringe at right dose as I find after a few washes of syringe the writing fades. Is Anaplex safe for piggies? Suppose to stimulate appetite.

Also her pee, heart, kidneys, temp, eyes, colour, were all good just her weight was bad. How I wish they would check her teeth again(checked when sedated January 2021).
I was also told NOT to put poops from Jay and Jersey in fridge but just in a cool place, so lesson learned there. As cold from fridge kill all good and bad bugs.

So paws crossed she continues to improve, how slow should I go introducing food to her diet? Was also told to put lettuce, grass and poops from Jay and Jersey into blender and syringe feed it to her watery at first then make it thicker.
So keep you paws crossed this little lady continues to improve! Thanks for your patience and all your good advice! Keep you posted. Also cautious as piggies improve before they decline.

Lynx wrote what was on the bottle. Guess he made a mistake when typing label! Will ring and check it out. Thanks!

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:08 am


Forgot to mention, this has NOT solved original problem. Back in late December 2020 she stopped eating which is why she was put on antibiotics. So if teeth are OK. What else is there?

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:50 am


Let us know what he says about the concentration and dosage. No other ideas! I wish I knew more.

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ItsaZoo
Supporter in 2020

Post   » Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:19 am


This has been a long haul for you, Daisymay. I wish I had some suggestions, but I can't think of anything else. Jill just has to start eating some hay and get her digestion straightened out.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:46 am


It seems we maybe on the right track(touching wood) as yesterday she actually wheeked for her food again and she got feed 6 times(small feeds). So far poops still normal. She still cries out when peeing and pooping otherwise she is acting normal.

On Friday at vet she was 705gram, when we got home weighed her and she was 764grams, Saturday 784grams and today Sunday 809grams, hoping this also continues.

Thanks for the replies Lynx and ItsaZoo. Will keep you posted. ItsaZoo funny thing was the only thing Jill did eat was the Meadow hay.

Was told ALL piggies have protozoa bugs in poops but usually small. Problem was Jill's were really big and very active. So for now keeping paws crossed and hoping she continues to improve and stops the crying out when going toilet!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:43 pm


If all your guinea pigs actually do have intestinal parasites, getting completely rid of them will be very difficult.

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ItsaZoo
Supporter in 2020

Post   » Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:43 pm


Glad to see your post, Daisymay. It sounds like she's getting an appetite and some weight. They get picky about hay and grass when they're ill. Or when you stock up on the kind they like best - then it's no longer their favorite! ;)

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:03 pm


None of the girls are showing any signs and haven't since Jill displayed them back in January. Jill also lives alone but can see Jay and Jersey through the barrier.

Jill I guess sick of grass, NO longer one of her favourite foods. After 3 months of nothing but grass can't say I blame her. Thanks for replies Lynx and ItsaZoo. Keep you posted.

I think weight gain may be due to the Glucose she gets twice a day. Will have to see when she goes off it. For now just happy weight is going in the right direction!

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:29 pm


Well Jill has done a back flip. Poops mushy again and major weight lost. Have not changed diet, did remove glucose and Anaplex from medication.

Now I am curious can mice be the cause of Jill's protozoan bugs? We have had an unusual amount this year. We have mice traps and have caught many. They are also early this year.

We think they are attracted by the hay which we have inside the house as if outside more mice can access it and neighbours do not keep their cats indoors. When outside found cat poops and smelt of urine. Of course this hay was chucked out. This was nearly 3 years ago when we first moved in.

Girls in lounge, mice in kitchen, hay in dining room adjoining kitchen. Any suggestions on how to store hay fresh BUT safe from mice and cats!

Got this of Google: Rodents carry a wide range of disease-causing organisms, including many species of bacteria, viruses, protozoa and helminths (worms).

Will keep you posted, hope to get on top of this situation with Jill and the mice. Think only a handful left but can't be sure.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:12 pm


I am sorry she's having problems again.

If you were really worried about mice in the hay but wanted ventilation, you could build a hardware cloth cage for it. Choose the hardware cloth with 1/2" openings (hardware cloth is strong welded wire). Cut or bend panels and wire them tightly together

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:32 pm


Thanks for reply Lynx. Jill put on 30 grams in one day. Am monitoring her like a hawk. Hoping she continues to improve!

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