Cavy Pellet Analysis
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- Little Jo Wheek
Oxbow is the best.
It's hard to do a ranking. I'm working on some method to do it systematically. Kaytee is somewhere in the middle (better than Hartz certainly). However, it contains harmful ethoxyquin (a preservative) and undesirable corn and corn oil.
My purpose is to have people read the first post and then be able to examine their diets for the amounts of poor quality ingredients on their own. There are just too many brands and diets to list them all. It will help if people discuss them in one place (this thread, perhaps) and post urls or names of other diets available to examine.
It's hard to do a ranking. I'm working on some method to do it systematically. Kaytee is somewhere in the middle (better than Hartz certainly). However, it contains harmful ethoxyquin (a preservative) and undesirable corn and corn oil.
My purpose is to have people read the first post and then be able to examine their diets for the amounts of poor quality ingredients on their own. There are just too many brands and diets to list them all. It will help if people discuss them in one place (this thread, perhaps) and post urls or names of other diets available to examine.
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- Little Jo Wheek
8 in 1, Hartz, Vitakraft, Hagen, and L/M are not listed on the internet (as far as ingredients) with my searches. I know several of them use ethoxyquin, BHA, BHT, colorings, and animal fat. Must be a reason they're not published on the web. I'll see what I can find "in the field" as I have time.
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- I GAVE, dammit!
>>Oxbow is the best.<<
Based on?? I'm not looking to argue but I have found nothing in the Proform that would not rank it right up there with Oxbow Cavy Performance.
Did you find anything in the Proform that caused you concern? I'd like to make sure I'm feeding my pigs top quality feed.
Based on?? I'm not looking to argue but I have found nothing in the Proform that would not rank it right up there with Oxbow Cavy Performance.
Did you find anything in the Proform that caused you concern? I'd like to make sure I'm feeding my pigs top quality feed.
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- Little Jo Wheek
Yes, based on the findings I have so far. Reread the first post with ingredients to avoid. The oil is one of them, and it isn't pure anything, a byproduct to be more precise.
Proform is middle ground, maybe better. Fairly close to Oxbow, maybe. "Vegetable oil lipid, Forage products (alfalfa), grain products (wheat and barley, used as a binder, no corn), plant protein products, roughage products"
Any ingredient with the word "product" after it is suspect. It could almost be anything left over after all other human grade ingredients are processed out. Sometimes useful, often not. Usually not nutritionally great. If I could get nutrient values on the suspect "products" above, it might help to grade it better. It's just floating in the upper half for now.
In general, pet food companies are owned by larger corporations that make human foods and products. The ingredients that they can find no use for at all for the human products are put into many pet foods. That's a reason (one of many) that there are so many mediocre feeds for animals.
It is also hard to rate them since certain products are more important than others. For example, oil as a minor ingredient in an otherwise nutritionally sound diet may not be a big deal. The basis of the diet should be examined. Usually, it is the first 5 ingredients or so listed, but when talking about weights (which is how they're ordered), wet feeds or ingredients with lots of moisture can skew the order. It is a huge field and we're just skimming the surface. Most of the supplements (chemical additives, vitamins, and minerals) have some problem or other. We could go crazy taking the entire lists apart on a molecular level. If I only had a brain...
Proform is middle ground, maybe better. Fairly close to Oxbow, maybe. "Vegetable oil lipid, Forage products (alfalfa), grain products (wheat and barley, used as a binder, no corn), plant protein products, roughage products"
Any ingredient with the word "product" after it is suspect. It could almost be anything left over after all other human grade ingredients are processed out. Sometimes useful, often not. Usually not nutritionally great. If I could get nutrient values on the suspect "products" above, it might help to grade it better. It's just floating in the upper half for now.
In general, pet food companies are owned by larger corporations that make human foods and products. The ingredients that they can find no use for at all for the human products are put into many pet foods. That's a reason (one of many) that there are so many mediocre feeds for animals.
It is also hard to rate them since certain products are more important than others. For example, oil as a minor ingredient in an otherwise nutritionally sound diet may not be a big deal. The basis of the diet should be examined. Usually, it is the first 5 ingredients or so listed, but when talking about weights (which is how they're ordered), wet feeds or ingredients with lots of moisture can skew the order. It is a huge field and we're just skimming the surface. Most of the supplements (chemical additives, vitamins, and minerals) have some problem or other. We could go crazy taking the entire lists apart on a molecular level. If I only had a brain...
Last edited by Josephine on Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- I GAVE, dammit!
I can give you the phone number for the nutritionist at Proform. He has talked to me countless times and is more than patient.
Canada's labelling laws are very different than ours, part of the reason they are no longer exporting to the US.
I also had a huge problem with the "vagueness" of the labelling. He talked to me for over 40 minutes one time.
The "grain products" was big for me, I wanted nothing with corn, which you can see most of the pellets rely on. He told me there is no corn in it, it is wheat and barley for binders.
I was thrilled that they used food grade vegetable oil rather than animal by products.
I saw where you listed no vegetable "fiber", but does that also include oil?
Hey, can you do the analysis yourself? I would be more than happy to send you some to test.
I'll call the guy from Proform and ask him some more questions, especially on the suspect "products".
More than anything, I would like to know myself.
Canada's labelling laws are very different than ours, part of the reason they are no longer exporting to the US.
I also had a huge problem with the "vagueness" of the labelling. He talked to me for over 40 minutes one time.
The "grain products" was big for me, I wanted nothing with corn, which you can see most of the pellets rely on. He told me there is no corn in it, it is wheat and barley for binders.
I was thrilled that they used food grade vegetable oil rather than animal by products.
I saw where you listed no vegetable "fiber", but does that also include oil?
Hey, can you do the analysis yourself? I would be more than happy to send you some to test.
I'll call the guy from Proform and ask him some more questions, especially on the suspect "products".
More than anything, I would like to know myself.
Last edited by kleenmama on Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Little Jo Wheek
Yup, I did consider Canada's laws to be different.
It would be great if we could find out EXACTLY what the ingredients are. Of course, I still think pellets should ALWAYS be supplements and good grass hay with fresh high-quality veggies daily should be the basis of the diet.
HA! Unfortunately, I know no one in a lab who could really do what I want. Organic chemists might also be helpful.
I would include oil in the seeds, nuts, oils to be given in small amounts only. It is likely the Oxbow feeds do have a small amount with the soy meal.
It would be great if we could find out EXACTLY what the ingredients are. Of course, I still think pellets should ALWAYS be supplements and good grass hay with fresh high-quality veggies daily should be the basis of the diet.
HA! Unfortunately, I know no one in a lab who could really do what I want. Organic chemists might also be helpful.
I would include oil in the seeds, nuts, oils to be given in small amounts only. It is likely the Oxbow feeds do have a small amount with the soy meal.
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- I GAVE, dammit!
One thing he did tell me was that the pellets were 85-90% alfalfa. Everything after that were very small amounts.
I am nearly certain they are not going to change their labelling laws for moi, much as I tried to persuade them.
When they used to ship to the US, they had a different label for US than CAnada because of the laws. Once they stopped shipping here, they bailed on the "specific" labels.
I am nearly certain they are not going to change their labelling laws for moi, much as I tried to persuade them.
When they used to ship to the US, they had a different label for US than CAnada because of the laws. Once they stopped shipping here, they bailed on the "specific" labels.
So which one is least crappy for guinea pigs? I dont want them to be unhealthy when it comes to something I can help.