barely eating x3 months, now impaction issues

platypus

Post   » Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:16 pm


[Edited - spaces added for readabity -Lynx]

i rescued males izzy & gilbert when they were 2 months old (the breeder only wanted the female & was gonna dump the males, ugh). we lost izzy a few months ago - bladder stone that completely blocked his urethra, urine backed up into the kidneys. we are still heartbroken. gilbert is 4.5 years old & lives alone but always near me. (our piggy rescue person is no longer rescuing so no buddy so far). in march he was fine one day, next morning hadn't eaten any of his hay. he'd gone from 1200 gm to 1140.

started sq fluids, critical care, metacam. saw our gr8 piggy-savvy vet, dr. n, of course diagnosis was g.i. stasis. teeth ok. added cisapride. it's been 3.5 months of syringe fdgs x2-4/day, wt. up & down. only eating small amt. of greens & pellets (kms) for the most part, not much hay. saw 2nd piggy-savvy vet dr. w (dr. n in isolation), teeth ok, thought may have jaw issues & suggested ct scan (minimum of a thousand bucks & general anesthesia, so no go for us). xray & labs are normal.

5 days ago gilbert didn't eat anything at all, dropped wt to 1111 gms. couldn't get app't for 2 days, finally saw 3rd piggy-experienced vet dr. s. dx - impaction. cleaned & flushed. better that night. but since then he's barely eaten anything, pretty much only italian parsley. not even pellets (dry or moist) or hay (dry or moist), i can't believe we're still on g.i. stasis protocol. his wt. is stable on 3-4 c.c. fdgs/day (with some mashed alfalfa pellets added).

back on cisapride since yesterday, has always been on metacam 0.4 cc x2/day (yeah, it's a high dose but it's also for his knees, all 3 vets prescribed it). televet visit with favorite vet dr. n yest., incisors are straight & even so no jaw problems, to continue regimen. all 3 vets say wt. at around 1140 gm is ok. these are my first 2 boars, didn't know about impaction issues or would have neutered them, have read everything on guinealynx available.

so here we are. 1) any suggestions to get him to eat? 2) what's the softest hay? he's got 3rd cut timmy (kms), oat, alfalfa (quality is awful). i know lack of hay is big factor for impaction issue & cannot cut down on greens right now. 3) when do i intervene with impaction?

if there's a light brown soft ball in sac, do i leave it? he's got one coupla times/day. normal poops are about 1/2 normal amt. in cage so he is pooping on his own but still has soft ball in sac, is on fleece. 4) if i do have to intervene with impaction, how do i do it? don't want to immerse his butt in water several times a day...? dr. n says to push from bottom up. it's frustrating not being able to be in room w/vet so one of them can show me what to do. 5) has anyone else had this issue with their piggy? i'm grateful for any help you can give gilbert & me

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:38 pm


It's hard to read your lengthy post because you don't have any breaks in the text (paragraphs) or proper capitalization.

The lump in his anal sac is an impaction, and it will need to be gently removed. Have you read the GL page on how to do that?
https://www.guinealynx.info/impaction.html

I wonder if he might do better with Metoclopramide instead of Cisapride. They're both motility drugs, but each works differently on the GI tract.

Are you hand feeding him?
https://www.guinealynx.info/handfeeding.html

EDIT: Per one veterinarian Sef has consulted with, Metoclopramide (Reglan) and Cisapride used together can cause potentially serious complications in some situations. Use only as directed and under the strict supervision of a knowledgeable exotics veterinarian.

See also: Motility Medications

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:59 pm


Ditto Sef. If you take the time to use proper capitalization and punctuation, it makes posts so much more readable. And a line of space between paragraphs helps a great deal.

Thanks!

platypus

Post   » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:28 pm


Oh Lynx & Sef, I apologize for the long post. I don't capitalize as I have arthritis and it hurts to stretch my little fingers. And I just simply forgot to use paragraphs, I didn't expect my post to go so long. I think I'm still mourning my Izzy and get long-winded without realizing it, I will try to watch that

It's all right, no need to reply. I know you are volunteers and I have benefitted from your expertise in the past which is why i made a donation at the beginning of the year and guinealynx is my amazon charity. But my Gilbert's case is complicated and is too much of a burden on others. I will just keep doing what I've been doing, thank you for reading my post

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:33 pm


I'm really sorry about your loss. It hurts, I know.

Did you read my response about impaction and question about handfeeding and motility drugs?

Wheeker

Post   » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:55 am


Is it really impaction or is it clumps of poo? I'm asking because what you describe sounds similar to what I've been going through the past few months with two of my pigs. First diagnosed with anaerobic bacterial infection and yeast back in February, cleared up with Azithromycin and Nystatin. Now it's baaacck and they're on meds for possible Coccidia. Back in February one of the first signs of trouble in my intact boar was him making clumps of poop, like they'd get sort of come out all at once in a soft mass. He never had diarrhea even though his cagemate did and he still hasn't. When he got better the first time the clumping stopped.

Have you tried running a fecal sample? Is that what you meant by "labs?" If you've got a vet with an in-house lab it's not too expensive.

Also you def shouldn't be feeding alfalfa to a pig his age--that could be the cause of his partner's stones. Try different cuts of Orchard, timothy, oat hay, or meadow. 3rd cut timothy is the softest timothy.

Does he show interest in food? My boar right now shows interest but won't eat more than a few bites.

Do you only feed mashed pellets? What kind? Make sure they're not over 8% calcium content without calcium carbonate. You should get a Critical Care powder. It'll be easier on your arthritis too rather than mashing stuff up.

You're right that it always could be jaw related. I had to handfeed a pig for months once while he was developing a tumor that went undetectable until he had basically almost wasted away and we had to put him down.

Sending happy wishes as I too hand-feed my pig!

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:38 am


Did you mean .8% calcium content, Wheeker? Eight percent is way high. I always tried to limit my pigs to about.4% calcium if possible.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:43 pm


It is possible the impaction issues are secondary to the not eating as much - likely not as many fluids and less food moving through the system - the slowing contributing to the impaction.

Has he had a general xray to check for stones? An xray of the skull to check for malocclusion? (which can develop if not eating as much). Are there any signs of pain? Pain on urination or pooping?

I am sorry he is having these issues.

Sometimes I feel like I have a disability - not being able to read large blocks of posts - and I completely pass over them. I went back and broke up your post into random paragraphs so I would be able to read it today.

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:57 pm


I have the same problem, Lynx. My eyes are quite bad at this point.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:32 pm


For me it is something like a tracking issue. My mind just shuts down.

platypus

Post   » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:01 pm


Sef - Yes, I had read the impaction info and have been following the guidelines. I'm especially glad that you told me that Gilbert was impacted, I didn't know what to look for and at what point i should remove the poop. You relieved my mind a lot, I was worried I would do the wrong thing

I've emailed my vet re: Metoclopramide

I've been handfeeding him since March, currently we're at x4/day since he's stopped eating on his own. I give him critical care and I add small amounts of alfalfa pellet mash when he drops his weight too much.

Lynx - I'm sure you're right that his impaction issues are related to his diet. Since you reminded me about fluids in his G.I. tract I have made his critical care more soupy. I try to get him to drink water via syringe

Both boys had full body xrays when Izzy died. That's how Izzy's fatal bladder stone was found, it was an ugly xray. Thankfully Gilbert was clear.

Gilbert also had his head xray in March. His teeth were fine but the vet (#2) said she couldn't tell about his jaw and he should get a CT scan. Two days ago when I had a televisit with our #1 vet Dr. N, he looked at Gilbert's front incisors and since they were straight and flat said that his jaws were fine. I did ask him in the email if he thought another xray was needed.

I haven't noticed any signs of pain but he's on metacam 0.4 cc twice/day so it's hard to tell.

Wheeker - The vet said he didn't need a fecal. His bloodwork didn't show an infection either. I'm sorry you are going through the infections with your piggies, hopefully this post finds them on the mend

I normally don't give Gilbert any alfalfa hay but at this point I'm desperate for him to eat so I'm trying anything I can think of. He's had 6 different types of hay, sigh.

Thanx for thinking of my poor hands...I use a coffee grinder for the alfalfa pellets but they do still come out kind of grainy.

So my questions now are:

1) Do you have any tricks to get Gilbert to eat more hay, greens or pellets? Chocolate syrup? haha, kidding of course

2) Any special techniques you've come up with to make the removal of the impactions safer? So I don't injure him or stretch out the muscles more than they already are?

3) Do you have a recommendation for where I can get hay that is soft? I don't know any companies besides KMS

4) Any other thoughts as to how I can better care for him?

So much gratitude for you all for helping me, for sharing your expertise. We might have issues with our eyes, hands & brains but our spritis are loving and we have tons of compassion for critters and other people. We rock!

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:49 pm


Some people soak their hay in water and serve it on a plate (removing uneaten hay in a couple hours or so since once wet, mold may grow). The soaked hay adds fluids and for some reason, they like to eat it that way. As for impactions, if you give your guinea pig a butt bath and soak his rear end in water, the water should soften any impaction, making it easier to remove.

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