Fasting for 12 hours before surgery?

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User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:17 pm


Also interesting! I'll have to read that, thanks.

In the meantime, several references to what I had posted earlier:
"The rabbit has a well-developed cardiac sphincter, which is arranged in such a way that the rabbit cannot vomit."
(Exotic Animal Medicine & Husbandry, by Karen Rosenthal, Neil Forbes, Fredric Frye, et al; CRC Press, Mar 28, 2008)

"Rabbits cannot vomit [due to a] a well-developed cardiac sphincter."
(Ferrets, Rabbits and Rodents: Clinical Medicine and Surgery, by Katherine Quesenberry, et al; Elsevier Health Sciences, May 12, 2011)

"[The rabbit] has a well-developed cardiac sphincter that prevents vomiting, and a muscular pyloric area, although in general the muscular layer of the stomach is weaker than in other species."
(Textbook of Rabbit Medicine, by Molly Varga; Elsevier Health Sciences, Aug 19, 2013)

I think I originally read about it in the Quesenberry book.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:12 pm


I have one of the Quesenberry books but likely only read the guinea pig parts (not to mention, my memory is not as good as yours).

It is nice to find evidence for our statements.

MarlowePieper11

Post   » Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:19 am


Update, I called many hospitals in the surrounding area yesterday and decided to cancel my guinea pigs original appointment with the 12-hour fasting doctor after speaking with her a second time. I asked that talk to her to verify that she had told me to fast him for 12 hours and she said rabbits you don't need to fast but guinea pigs you do, and that she had been working with guinea pigs for over 20 years. she didn't give any other explanation as to why he should fast for that long and I didn't ask because I just felt very uncomfortable with the whole situation. I booked his surgery for this Thursday with another doctor who is actually closer. I didn't book her originally because Thursday is further out than I'd hoped to get him in but I would rather be comfortable with a doctor than get him in sooner. He is still eating and drinking and loves his floor time, zipping around the room. I'm still super nervous about the surgery, and hoping that after the surgery we can do our very best to make sure it that the bladder stones won't return. I ordered the KMS pellets and they should be here soon. Thank you for that recommendation. I was giving him oxbow. Also I give him orchardgrass, as opposed to Timothy Hay because of allergy reasons in our house. I don't think there should be a huge difference between the two Hays but any opinions would be welcome. Anyways, the doctor were going to on Thursday told us to take away his food the morning of the surgery which seems reasonable. I'll take his food away at 7 and he'll arrive at the vets around 8:45. Hoping for good news on Thursday and a speedy recovery for our little guy. Also hoping it's in our favor that he is very healthy otherwise and is Young.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2021

Post   » Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:45 am


Hope all goes well! Paws crossed here! Keep us posted!

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:05 am


...she said rabbits you don't need to fast but guinea pigs you do
That just doesn't make much sense to me. She may be experienced with guinea pigs, but her 12-hour fasting recommendation for guinea pigs only with no further explanation would make me very uncomfortable. I'm glad to hear that you were able to get him in to see the other vet.

Between now and then, do monitor closely to make sure that he continues to poop, pee and eat normally. If he suddenly seems lethargic and won't eat and/or is straining to poop or pee, contact the vet ASAP.

Sending all very good thoughts to you both for an uneventful surgery and recovery!

ETA: Good post-op care information can be found here:
https://www.guinealynx.info/postop.html

Also, information on bladder stones:
https://www.guinealynx.info/stones.html

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:26 am


When I saw "...she said rabbits you don't need to fast but guinea pigs you do", it said to me she lost a guinea pig to theoretical vomiting. I think your description of vomiting (from stomach - guinea pigs don't) and possible regurgitation of food in the esophagus (I am recalling the pocket in the throat Pinta referred to) may be the issue. I think of offering hay as something that will move better through the esophagus and pellets (which might turn into a paste after chewing) being more likely to end up in this pocket for some guinea pigs. But I am just guessing.

An hour or two still seems more reasonable.

MarlowePieper11

Post   » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:17 am


Agreed that an hour or two seems more reasonable. And I have been certainly monitoring him closely. He is as big an eater as ever, drinking regularly, and in fact popcorning around the cage after we had our cuddles tonight on the couch. Whenever I see him peeing I go in with a piece of paper towel to make sure that there's actually pee there, as he is on a navy blue fleece and sometimes it's hard to tell. I am certainly counting down the days to Thursday! Thank you again so much for the encouragement and suggestions! When I first posted this thread and got practically an immediate response my husband nearly fell off his chair! He couldn't believe this little guinea pig community existed and was very impressed!

MarlowePieper11

Post   » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:20 am


And Lynx, that is a very interesting observation. The 12 hours just made me so nervous- I imagined waking up to him keeled over! That was too stressful a scenario for me to act out.

User avatar
Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:38 am


Although you won't necessarily get an immediate response, if the handful of members who monitor the medical board are online and think they can help, they will try to offer advice.

Guinea Lynx has been around over 20 years. Back before social media took over, members used the general chat forum as their "yahoo answers" for advice on almost anything under the sun.

MarlowePieper11

Post   » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:28 pm


As it turns out the Vet we had scheduled for Thursday called today and said due to the rest nature of small animal surgery she would recommend holding off for a few months, them taking another x-ray to see if it got bigger. I explained my concerns about putting it off until it was an emergency state, because every time I have an emergency with one of my guinea pigs it seems to happen in the middle of the night when no one is available to help, and that's not the situation I want to find myself in because of this bladder stone. I asked her what she would do if that's where her guinea pig and she said she would hold off to see what happens. I asked her what the outcomes have mostly been for these types of surgery is when she's done them in the past. Although two of the front desk girls had previously told me that she had done these surgeries before and she had been working with guinea pigs for 27 years and only lost one, the doctor today informed me that in fact she had never performed a cystotomy on a guinea pig. She has spayed and neutered guinea pigs, and done a cystotomy on a rabbit, but this would be her first of this kind. That was very frustrating because I was under a a different impression. had I known this was her first time doing the surgery I would not have booked her. Needless to say this is the second surgery I've canceled. I have an appointment for a check-up at a third location on Friday. this surgeon wasn't able to get him in until the 14th which is why I didn't choose them. Money was also an issue as the appointment he had on Thursday was going to be between $800- $1,000. This place I'm taking him for a check-up at on Friday quoted me between $1200-$1,800. The only upside to that has this doctor performed three cystotomies on guinea pigs just last week. Is that about the price range you all have looked at? I'm in Connecticut.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:37 pm


I paid $400 for one, $650 for another.

User avatar
Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:58 pm


Wow. Wasn't expecting that. Does the $1,200-1,800 for the surgery include any meds, fluids, antibiotics? Or just the procedure? If the second vet had said, "I haven't done a cystotomy on a guinea pig, but I feel very confident that I can do it successfully," that would be one thing. My own vet had never done this procedure before, the first time we had a bladder stone, but she had done several successful other surgeries on rabbits and guinea pigs (including neuters) and was quite confident. This vet sounds reluctant. It's rare for a male guinea pig to pass a stone, although it *can* happen. I've had it happen with at least one of ours. More than likely, though, it will get bigger and more painful as time goes on. 5mm is a fairly decent-size stone. And, as already mentioned, there is also a possibility of it becoming lodged in the urethra. I'd be curious to see the x-rays to get an idea of where the stone is.

How is he doing as far as pain when eliminating? You mentioned earlier that he was crying. Is he still doing that? Passing any blood? Does he seem to hunch or strain while peeing or pooping? Was he put on any antibiotics or pain meds?

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