Poppy the Piggy- Heart Condition, Benazepril Dosage, Critical Care Supplement

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:13 pm


What has her water intake been like?

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:24 pm


The crusty white stuff around her eyes may be cleaning fluid. If she's not moving her legs well, she may not be grooming herself as much. You can try gently wiping it away with a soft damp cloth and see if it comes back.

I haven't heard of vitamin C affecting poop size. Is she eating as much hay as usual? And is she getting enough to drink? You could syringe her water two or three times a day and see if that helps.

skuchi

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:29 pm


Thanks. We will try that! Though she is still eating and drinking, I don't think she's eating or drinking as much as usual.

skuchi

Post   » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:48 am


Poppy seems to be doing worse this morning. She's tired, sleeping more. She;s taking longer to wake up when we poke or pick her up, she still seems sleepy. Not quite as alert. She is gradually not eating as much day-to-day. Her back is hunched when she's sitting. Her poops are still very small, possibly because she's not eating much? She's a little unsteady on her feet but they aren't splayed out like they were. I think the Vit C helped there. It looked like she may have had a little discharge near her urinary opening last night, white. But there's nothing there today. She's not losing weight fast but she is losing weight. No breathing issues that we can hear or see.

We're giving her cc every 3 hours. Anything, within reason, that she's willing to and enjoys eating. Extra Vit C drops (about 25mg/day + cc). And trying to make her as comfortable as possible.

Any idea what's going on with her? Any ideas of what to expect moving forward? Any suggestions? We might, might be able to get meds from the vet.

She's old so, honestly, I'm not sure I expect her to make it through this, even without the constraints of the pandemic. They closed all non-essential businesses, put us on voluntary lockdown, and we have a house full of severe asthmatics. :( We are in the epi-center of the outbreak in Florida. I wish all of this wasn't happening at the same time. I really want to make her better. Barring that, comfortable!

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:24 pm


I know you mentioned that kidney issues were considered a while back but ruled out. I do wonder about renal failure at her age, though. You mentioned that her water intake has decreased somewhat. Did you notice a marked increase in water intake at one time and then it dropped off? The white crusties around her eye(s) reminded me of our renal pig, Leonard, who would easily get dehydrated and would have slightly sunken eyes and some crusty around them when he needed more fluids. Also slow, a gradual weight loss where his hips became much more pronounced. I don't know if that's the case, here, but just thinking out loud.

You could try some unflavored Pedialyte if you have it on hand or if you can get it without putting yourself at risk. It always seemed to help Leonard bounce back, until finally the disease had progressed beyond what could be managed.

skuchi

Post   » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:16 pm


Thank you, Sef. She isn't drinking as much, and she always was a 'thirsty pig'. But I don't really know if there was a time it increased remarkably. With both pigs in the same enclosure, and all of their food and water as a mixed bag it's hard to tell what one individual is doing unless it's a big change. I don't remember seeing something like that in her, but it's possible. They checked her kidneys and said they seemed to be fine, but that was almost a year ago. You piggy does sound similar, and Poppy's over 6 years old. Her heart was in question, and that was never firmly diagnosed. I really appreciate your help. Given everything else that's going on this is h.a.r.d.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:33 pm


I am sorry for your personal risk in the pandemic. The symptoms you describe indicate she may be in pain. Do you have any pain meds? Could you call your vet and ask what would be appropriate for her if there were possible renal issues?

skuchi

Post   » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:06 pm


Thank you, Lynx. We called them on Friday but they weren't taking appointments and told us to email. We haven't heard back. I'm sure she's swamped with questions. Are there any over the counter meds we can give her that we might have on hand?

skuchi

Post   » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:16 pm


I called their answering service. We might be able to get some Metacam tomorrow. She's not standing very well on her back legs. :(

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:18 pm


Be careful with Metacam, though. If her kidneys *are* compromised, NSAIDs are hard on them.

Can you get unflavored Pedialyte without too much unnecessary travel/risk?

skuchi

Post   » Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:10 pm


An update on Poppy and a question about meds.

She's on Tramadol and a small dose of Metacam. We're giving her vitamin C water, CC, and plain pedialyte 3-4 times daily plus her veggies/hay/etc. She's gained a little weight back! About 40 grams, though she's still underweight. She weighs 484 grams right now, and is taking x2 .04mg of metacam @1.5mg/ml + .1mg of tramadol @10mg/ml daily. Her meds are given to her in 3 seperate doses each day (metacam in am & pm, tramadol in afternoon). The vet says we can give her up to double those amounts daily. She's still sleeping a lot (maybe even more now with the meds) and is a little hunched but not nearly as much, and not chattering her teeth or so puffed up. She's walking much better and even scratching and cleaning herself from time to time. She's been on them now for almost 2 weeks.

Do we need to up her med doses or maybe give her more tramadol than metacam?

How do you figure out what the right dose is so they are not in pain but we aren't putting her in danger with side effects from the meds?

User avatar
Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:11 pm


Thanks for the update. I am sorry that you're dealing with this, much less during this nightmare pandemic.

First, let me make sure I understand the dose that she's getting of Metacam. She weighs roughly 0.5kg. The suggested range for Metacam is anywhere between 0.1mg/kg to 0.3mg/kg. If I go middle-of-the-road with 0.2mg/kg, the amount of Metacam needed based on her weight would be 0.1mg every 24 hours. At a concentration of 1.5 mg/ml, that amount of Metacam is found in 0.06cc's.

In your post, you wrote:
"and [she] is taking x2 .04mg of metacam"

Do you mean 0.04ml (cc's)? Or do you mean that she's literally getting that many milligrams of Metacam? Because, I can't make the numbers jibe. And are you giving her that same amount each time, twice a day, or is that the total amount and you're dividing it up between the two doses?

Same question with the Tramadol. Is that the actual milligrams, or did you mean 0.1ml (cc's), and is that the dose you're giving each time or are you splitting it into multiple doses?

Just want to make sure I understand how much of each she is getting.

skuchi

Post   » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:08 am


Hi Sef. Thanks for answering. Sorry, I see that I wasn't as clear as I needed to be. She is getting Metacam twice daily, each time she gets .04cc's. She is getting the Tramadol as needed in the afternoon, so once a day at .1cc's (roughly). My daughter was giving her Tramadol twice and Metacam once, but she's terribly sleepy and still seemed to be in a bit of pain so we switched it.

The bottles we got have the following directions and info:

Metacam 1.5mg/ml
Give .08ml by mouth 1-2 times daily

Tramadol 10mg/ml
Give .35 ml by mouth twice daily as needed for pain

Also, can she have flavored Pedialyte? We're out of the unflavored and I can't find it anywhere.

User avatar
Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:59 pm


Tramadol could be zonking her out, so I would agree with once a day. I haven't double-checked the dose, but I can take a closer look at it later today if you like. It *sounds* reasonable for her weight, though.

On the Metacam, I would try bumping it up slightly to see if it better helps manage the pain but you will want to make sure she's staying hydrated as NSAIDs are hard on the kidneys. In a normal situation like this, you do have to try to balance the ability to keep her comfortable enough to function (eat, drink, move around, etc.) vs. any long-term effects, but given the mess with this pandemic and lack of veterinary options, I think I would err on the side of pain relief.

I wouldn't use flavored Pedialyte. Can you maybe order the unflavored stuff online? Are you giving her Critical Care?

skuchi

Post   » Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:07 pm


Thanks Sef!

She is getting Critical Care, though she's less enthusiastic about it these days. She'll eat a good bit in the morning, then we have to coax or force feed her a bit in the afternoon and evening.

On dosage, the amounts we are giving her are good? Or do we need to bump it up to what's on the bottle (about double what she's getting)? She's currently getting .04cc (twice daily) Metacam, and .1cc Tramadol (once daily).

I'll see if I can find unflavored Pedialyte anywhere, it seems to be in short supply. :( We do give her some vit C fortified water 3 times a day as well.

Thank you again for your help! It is most appreciated.

User avatar
Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:14 pm


The suggested range is 0.1-0.3 mg/kg q24. At her weight and at the 1.5 mg/ml concentration, a mid-range dose would be around 0.06ml every 24 hours; high end dose would be 0.1cc every 24 hours. I think the dose you're giving her seems reasonable (half, or 0.04ml every 12 hours), but you could try bumping it up slightly and see if it makes her a little more comfortable. If it were me, I'd maybe bump to 0.05ml for a couple of days; evaluate; adjust as needed. Again, do make sure she stays well-hydrated as NSAIDs are hard on the kidneys.

On the Tramadol, the suggested range is 5-10 mg/kg so at her weight and with the 10 mg/ml concentration, going with a mid-range dose, it would be exactly 0.35ml q12-24. You are giving her a much lower dose, I assume because it was making her too drowsy. Sometimes pain management takes a lot of trial-and-error to get it right.

skuchi

Post   » Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:37 am


Thanks. We will bump it up. She's still eating and drinking pretty well, sleeping a lot.
She's got a crusty eye this morning, and it looks a little swollen. :( Poor girl just can't catch a break!

skuchi

Post   » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:19 pm


A Poppy update. Since last night she is moving less, seems to be less steady on her feet, and is starting to refuse her feedings and fresh veggies. She's been more reluctant to eat the past few days but this morning she just doesn't want anything to do with any of it. She is nibbling loose hay strands, but it doesn't seem to be eating as much as aggravated chewing, and she only does it when we disturb her. Otherwise, she just wants to lay under the water bottle and sleep. She bit me when I pet her with my finger this morning, I think I startled her.

Is there anything we can do to make her more comfortable?

User avatar
Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:38 pm


I'm so sorry. Is she getting any fluids? Does she look dehydrated? I'd call the vet and describe what's going on and see what they suggest at this point. If this is an end-of-life situation, obvious the focus will shift to just keeping her comfortable (possibly by bumping up the Tramadol) rather than avoiding lethargy.

skuchi

Post   » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:28 pm


She also has developed loose stools. :( Poor thing. We are calling the vet but no answer yet.
We are giving her fluids hourly.

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