Olive's gas problem

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:43 am


No, both antibiotics treat bacterial infections; they just treat different types. The type of bacteria typically found in urinary tract infections tends to respond better to Bactrim.

**Generally speaking** Bactrim is less hard on the gut. Do read:
http://www.guinealynx.info/antibiotics.html

Olive

Post   » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:49 pm


Thank you. I'll update once I have the x-ray and reports.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:29 pm


One of the side effects of using antibiotics can be loss of appetite. Bactrim is much less likely to cause loss of appetite.
http://www.guinealynx.info/antibiotic_advice.html

Olive

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:53 am


Just got the x-ray done. I will get the result of the stool test by today evening and urine test by Tuesday. From first look (and even the technician at the lab said so) it seems like that we can rule out stones. But, on second look, (I think I am being overly skeptical), near the foot, in the side view, L, there is a small white circle. It seems like its a joint, since it is not being seen on the frontal scan, R.

The lab does not to x-ray reports and I simply do not trust the vets here who do not know how to deal with cavies. Can you please take a look at it and confirm? I think I am being overly skeptical. But, I really can't control it when it comes to my little baby.

Drive link to the x-ray images: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Pju4hyn8Wwvxt0pqrJqef8at0mq0T8XN

Note: Wanted to put the pictures directly on the forum, but I couldn't find an option to?

I have provided full pictures as well as zoomed in pictures for better understanding, but, please let me know if you need pictures with more clarity.

Olive

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:57 am


** Forgot to add; The technician at the lab also said that there seems to be a lot of gas accumulation. I am not really sure about this, since she has been on simethicone and metoclopramide 11 days now?

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:56 am


That is a large amount of ingesta and gas, I would agree with the tech. I'd need to read back through her diet, but I don't recall anything too concerning there. Do remind me...is she still on Metoclopramide? If so, what is the strength of it and what dose is she being given? What is her weight?

She looks quite bloated there. Simethicone in her case might not be helping. It works by combining multiple, frothy gas bubbles into fewer, larger bubbles that can, in theory, be more easily passed. If the motility is slowed down, though, it stands to reason that the large bubbles will just sort of sit there.

It is very hard to visualize the bladder in those images because of the gas, but I don't see anything obvious as far as stones. It doesn't one one isn't there; I just can't see anything.

Olive

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:28 am


Thank you Sef. I would really appreciate if others could confirm the absence of a stone as well???

Her medicinal dosage is:
1. Metoclopmoride 1mg q12h
2. Simethicone 0.3ml q8h (roughly 12 mg per dosage)
3. Meloxicam 0.5mg q12h

Diet:
1. Grass throughout the day.
2. A salad which consists of tomatoes, cucumbers and carrots in small portions throughout the days.
Note: She simply doesn't drink her water. So, we've been giving her water by dropping the grass in water before giving to her. Maybe lack of water has caused this?

Yes, her motility has slowed down. Her droppings are fewer in number, and while some of the them are normal in size, others are small. And she might require something stronger than simethicone. What do you suggest?

Quick update: Haven't heard her squeak while passing urine in quite some time. It was happening every time she was urinating, day before yesterday when I first wrote about it here. It was slightly lesser yesterday; Occasional squeaking. Haven't heard it today at all. So, something positive hopefully.

**Edit: There are traces of calcium in her urine even now. There might be a smidge there somewhere in the x-ray along with the gas. Very difficult to tell apart though. I read lack of water can also lead to calcium deposition? All this is probably connecting to her not having enough water at the end of the day...

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:39 am


On the metoclopramide, what is the concentration/strength of the drug (should be on the bottle, written as something like 20mg/ml). And how many cc's are you giving at a time? 1mg doesn't tell me much. Also need her weight. I would want to make sure she is getting an accurate dose to stimulate her gut, as it's clear things are not moving as they should.

Olive

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:53 am


Weight: 1020 grams. A loss of 40 grams in the last 10 days. I hope this is not alarming?
Medication:
1. Metoclopmoride 1mg q12h: 1 tablet contains a 10mg dose. Administered orally by dissolving in 2.5ml water and giving 1/10th proportion, i.e. 1mg. Dosage of 2 mg per day in total.
2. Simethicone 0.3ml q8h (roughly 12 mg per dosage): Each Ml consists of 40mg simethicone. She gets a 0.3ml dose thrice, which translates to 36mg per day.
3. Meloxicam 0.5mg q12h: 1 tablet contains a 15mg dose. Administered orally by dissolving in 6ml water and giving 1/30th proportion, i.e. 05mg. Dosage of 1mg per day in total.

Olive

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:56 am


I also have her stool report.
Link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sGa8VwwJPRzM64dBBfaX442jtWGOk6U7

Can someone provide insight into this please?

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:33 am


Yes, looks like a lot of gas! BugsMom had a method of massaging gas out of the gut. Would have to be gentle.
http://www.guinealynx.info/records/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=117

It doesn't appear there are stones. Here are your pictures:
Image

Image

Image

Image

User avatar
Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:35 am


Thanks for posting those, Lynx. I hadn't noticed the front views from the link, just the side views -- which were harder for me to see anything. From the front, though, the bladder is fairly clear and I see nothing in there to suggest a stone.

I don't know what to make of all the gas, though. I can't really tell, but it almost looks like there is some fluid as well.

The dose of Metoclopramide seems reasonable. Range is 0.5-1.0 mg/kg q 6-12 hours. You can ask your vet, but I'd be inclined to bump the dose up to every 6 hours vs. 12 hours to see if it helps.

Massage would likely help a lot. She needs to get that gas moving. We have a senior male with a slow GI tract who occasionally has a bad gas bout and produces a lot fewer poops (he is having issues today, in fact). Fluids, massage and warmth if the body temp seems low, Critical Care (sometimes with a probiotic added in), Metcam as needed and *if* well-hydrated and Metoclopramide are all good to use in this situation. I personally don't use Simethicone.

If it were me, I'd limit veggies for now until she gets some of that gas out. Push hay and Critical Care if you have it; pellet mash otherwise, to help keep the gut moving and provide hydration.

It can sometimes also help to have them move around as much as possible, to help stimulate motility.

Olive

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:44 am


Thanks. You said that the simethicone is not helping. So, do you suggest a substitute for it? Or bumping the dose of metoclopramide will do for now? Also, I may be wrong, but doesn't metoclopramide help with motility and simethicone with the gas? I don't have a vet here who'll be able to guide me. I also don't get Critical Care here. Could you please take a look at the stool report as well? Says there that there is Toxocara (Ascaris spp.)++. Don't know what that means...The rest of the report seems normal, I guess?

Olive

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:57 am


**Also, should I syringe feed water to her to get things moving?

User avatar
Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:11 pm


I would give your vet a call on the stool report. Toxocara is, I think, a parasite. Does she graze outside at all?

Olive

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:26 pm


Again, there are no exotic vets here who can deal with cavies. If you check the earlier messages on the thread, you'll realise she almost died due to false medication given by doctors here. She doesn't graze outside. We get her grass from a vendor who sells to horses as well. So, trustworthy. On top of that, once we get the grass, we clean it in hot water as well.

Could you answer on the simethicone and water as well? Also, if she has a parasite, I'd have to administer ivermectin? Maybe I should wait till I have her urine test results?

And, about raising the dose of metoclopramide, bumping the dose by double would take the total intake of the drug to 4mg per day. You said I should space it into 4 doses at 6 hour intervals. Alternatively, does spacing it into 3 doses at 8 hour intervals work?

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:50 pm


I believe Panacur is usually the recommended drug to treat parasites in guinea pigs. I have not dealt with that situation before, but you might do a search on the Medical board as I know there are a number of cases that talk about this.

On the Metoclopramide, I would at least try the increased dose for a couple of days to see if it makes any difference in poop production. I feel like that will be a bigger help than the simethicone, but maybe someone else here will weigh-in soon. The issue with gas is that, as motility slows down and transit time of food through the gut increases, it creates increased fermentation in the gut and more gas. I do not have a recommendation on something to try instead of simethicone. Some people swear by it; I haven't had any luck with it.

You can make a pellet mash as described here:
http://www.guinealynx.info/handfeeding.html

I would keep pushing that, plus water via syringe (careful to avoid aspiration), pain meds and Metoclopramide. As I already suggested, you can also try massage and warmth to help with the bloating and gas. I do tend to think that the crying you were hearing might have been her trying to push dry/unformed feces out. My bloat-prone male vocalizes sometimes during pooping when he's having GI issues. You'll know more, though, when you receive the urinalysis as to whether or not she also has a UTI.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:00 pm


Toxocara are worms, ova are eggs, so she does have intestinal parasites. I would think that ivermectin would kill them, but I don't know what the dosage should be. Maybe someone with a Carpenter's could look it up. I wouldn't think the urine test results would have any bearing.

You can try the metoclopramide at either six or eight hour intervals -- it shouldn't make a difference.

If she's not drinking, definitely syringe water. The more dehydrated she is, the drier the stool becomes, and is harder to pass.

I think massage or vibration would be more effective than simethicone.

Olive

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:59 pm


Thank you. Starting tomorrow, I'll increase the dosage of metoclopramide. Massaged her for a bit today and she started making a sound which was uncomfortable. She's clearly in pain. I'll continue with the massaging too.

I read on one of the medical threads here on guinea lynx that 0.2mg/ kg is the correct dosage of ivermectin, 1 time a week for 2-4 weeks, depending on the severity?

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Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:35 pm


I read on one of the medical threads here on guinea lynx that 0.2mg/ kg is the correct dosage of ivermectin, 1 time a week for 2-4 weeks, depending on the severity?
That dosage is for mites -- not parasites. I'll have to try to do some digging into appropriate dose for internal parasites, but what little I've been able to read today seems to indicate that Ivermectin may not be the best choice for that particular type of bug which appears to be a roundworm. If it's indeed that, the parasite is zoonotic -- meaning that humans can be infected by it. Do take precautionary measures in handling her and her feces.

Do you have dogs or cats around the house?

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