Jill, Jaffa and Jupiter

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:03 am


Jill in now eating nothing and we are force feeding her Critical Care every 4 hours and offering her water too. Weighed her on our scales-a week ago 1023grams now 984grams a lost of 39grams in a week.

She just wants to sleep and looks very tired. She has urinated 3 more times and her poops while way down on usual amount are normal in size and texture.

She is on Bactrim and Protexin twice a day but have seen no improvement since being on them. She gets dose 3 of Bactrim in 90 minutes time. Hoping she improves really soon! Keep you posted!

Lisa12

Post   » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:05 am


Oh, lord...We re hoping situation will turn for the better,soon...

We re keeping fingers, paws and everything crossed for Jill!! Please, get better, girl!!
T., Irie, Ziggy(cat)

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:24 am


I think the point Lynx was making, was for you to weigh something with a known weight, such as a new bag of sugar or flour, to see if your scales are operating correctly.

Not urinating in 17 hours is not normal and makes me wonder if there is a stone in her urethra causing at least a partial blockage. You will want to monitor this closely.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:10 am


We have just syringe fed Jill at 8.00pm and massaged her with toothbrush for 90 minutes. In that time she urinated 4 times and on the white towel it was a light brown coppery in colour. So am hoping if she has a stone she may have passed it.

On scales I weighed Jersey and she was still 835grams and weighed Jay to may sure and she went from 935grams to 953grams. So give or take I believe our scales are working. Remember Jill lost 100grams in 3 months, she was at vet in June and she was 1084grams. Friday she was 984 that is about 7-8grams a week. Thanks for the replies Lisa12 and Sef. Jill is in lounge right next to me and am watching closely! All the girls are in the lounge!

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:01 am


Did you see anything that looked like a little crystal on the towel? I don't think we've ever had light brown coppery urine. Maybe that has something to do with going so long without urinating. As I'm sure you know, not urinating is an emergency. If you can keep up gentle massage to keep her peeing, I think that would be good. Others might want to weigh in on that.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:17 pm


That is what I was trying to get through the thick vet's head! No pee warning signs but no all she said was she did a big pee when gassed for look at teeth just after 3.00pm (10.26pm when I rang)don't worry about it. We hardly slept at all last night. She gets massaged by toothbrush, offering water and has hot pack wrapped in a towel in case she has wind.

I got this from UTI page under heading blood in urine. Urine sometimes changes to an orange color on standing (this may be the oxidation of porphyrins in the urine). When your guinea pig has blood in its urine, it will appear red or pinkish (if diluted). Blood dries a brownish color.

Will keep you posted, thanks for the reply Bookfan and no saw no crystals and none were seen under microscope just bacteria. Am off to bed before Jill is due for feeding again!

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:18 pm


Dehydration can also cause urine to have a dark or orange tint. So can high amounts of vitamin C (can't remember if you're still supplementing).

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:18 pm


I hope she pulls through.

Yes, as Sef explained, just find an object in your house that will not change weight that you can use to see if the scale is consistent. Since you use kilos, I would look for an object that weighed around a kilo, note its precise weight, and reweigh if you think your scale is off.

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ItsaZoo
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:47 pm


I hope Jill starts getting better, Daisymay, you have your hands full. Darker orange-copper color pee can come from dark green veggies. I see this once in a while after I give Lacey a little piece of dandelion green. Since Jill peed while the vet had her sedated, and then went several times at home, do you think maybe she passed a stone or whatever while at the vet? It's probably too much to hope for, but the sedative would have made her more relaxed.

Hoping the Bactrim kicks in and gets her back on track!

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:03 am


Thanks for the reply ItsaZoo,Lynx and Sef! Went to the vet today and we know as much now as we did then. Nothing!


First urine was tested again, this time no blood and no bacteria. After 3 days? Keeping up Bactrim at least for another 3 days. She got sedated, shaved and again they tried to take blood from Jill's neck area, but their excuse again-Jill's neck area too fat. X-Rays were taken but vet has to do research to see what is normal for a guinea pig and she wants to put it on VIN website to get other vets opinions.

She did however rule out stones, she is looking at cancer, kidney failure or something else. So a big part of us don't want to know what is the matter!

She is eating the Critical Care but not on her own. She is still not peeing much 3-5 pees a day, poops are down too but they is due to her not eating by herself. Will post more when I know more.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:12 am


Weight loss, reduced appetite and water intake, reduced urinary output (and even the color of the urine) would be classic signs of kidney failure. I'm not sure it would explain blood in the urine, but perhaps if it is in the later stages. It's definitely something to rule out.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:03 am


Thank-you for the reply Sef. I am having trouble believing it might be kidney failure as it came on so fast. I know piggies hide their illness but this came on way to quick. She showed no signs except for a UTI back in June. But NO blood back then.

She saw the vet Friday, urine tested, bacteria and blood, goes back to vet Monday(3 days) bacteria and blood gone. She wanted us to take Jill off Bactrim but GL says 2-3 weeks or longer so am going for at least the 2 weeks.

She is eating hay, and will take Critical Care for my husband(they have always been so close)and cucumbers don't stand a chance. We believe this to be due to the Meloxicam or perhaps bladder infection cleared up.

As vet said she needs to study Jill's X-rays to find out what was normal for a guinea pig I have offered to bring Jay or Jersey in-both healthy piggies and have them have an X-ray for comparison with Jill's. Vet not on again till tomorrow. Will keep you posted. Thanking all for the replies.

Before I go, she tried to get blood from Jill in her throat area but couldn't as vet claimed Jill's throat area was too fat. Any suggestions on that?

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:34 am


Email got from vet, no better off as she can't read guinea pig X-rays. What do you think of areas of her suggested areas to take blood? Vets can't read ultra sounds results and pathologist have no idea proper reading for piggies. No wonder they suffer.

Good to hear she is eating a little. As far as x-raying another guinea pig to get a "normal" x-ray, thats probably a good idea (maybe next time you come in). Researching taking blood samples from guinea pigs , apparently very hard to get jugular (as we use in other species), however it is worthwhile trying to get a sample from the anterior vena cava (I have copied description on how to do this from specialist site) or the lateral saphenous vein. So if she continues to refuse food/loose weight we can try this under sedation.
Regards Helene

The Vena Cava sounds dangerous to me, not sure on the Saphenous Vein, sounds like the best bet. What do you all think?

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:38 am


It sounds like she is trying to do the best she can for you. You can mention if only a very small amount of blood is required, overclipping a toenail can work. If it is a full blood panel, perhaps more required?

Here is a pdf describing the procedure (probably for veterinary students):
https://ouv.vt.edu/content/dam/ouv_vt_edu/sops/small-animal- ... ena-cava.pdf

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:05 am


I have mentioned the toe claw before and I get reply-it is too painful for the guinea pig and not enough to be tested. I have mentioned getting blood any where else poses danger to the guinea pig but they answer pathologist need a lot of blood. I am hoping they will in house the blood test so they wouldn't need much. I will certainly forward it onto the vet! Thanks Lynx.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:12 am


If she does need more blood, a different method of collection certainly may be warranted (rather than the toenail clipping method).

You would need a warm foot, it would indeed hurt some, the foot would need to be massaged to get the blood out.

Josephine (do a search) has described this technique. She is a vet tech.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:26 pm


It largely depends on what is being screened. As Lynx said, some tests do require more blood. My vet has never been very proficient at getting a decent blood sample. Non-exotics vets who don't do it routinely on smaller animals find it a lot more challenging.

Ditto Lynx that it sounds like your current vet is doing her best.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:33 am


Reduced Jill on the Meloxicam from 0.2mls twice a day to 0.1mls twice a day and bang she stopped eating altogether. Syringe and food. So have gone back to 0.2mls twice a day for now. Will try reducing again in a few days time.

She wants to eats but can't seem too which makes me think of teeth like her sister Jaffa. BUT like Jaffa Jill's teeth have been looked at while sedated. One had a sharp tip and was rounded off but vet(not normal vet) said mouth too small and too much food(Critical Care) to see properly. This was Friday September 4th.

You go back to Thursday September 3rd Jill was wheeking for her food and very excited for it, this was breakfast. Lunch she wheeked but only ate 1/2-1/4 of it. By tea time she was interested but ate none and became difficult to syringe feed.

Could Jill and her late sister be like Jessie and have a bad tooth somewhere in her mouth causing swelling? Only difference was/is Jessie would get abscesses's. What do you think? Keep you posted. Thanks Lynx and Sef for your replies.

Out of curiosity it has always puzzled me, Jasmine went in for a blood withdrawal and when she came back to us she was floppy and back legs wouldn't work. Took us 3-4 days to get rid of the floppiness and 2-3 months to get hind legs working again. They were never the same but at least she could use them.

Vet tried to get blood from throat area and when that failed tried major vein in the leg. Did they do something to her that she came back to us that bad? She lived for a further 8 months. What also got me curious was she took a while to come around from just the gas. I suggested heart and I was poo pooed away. Guinea pigs here are super animals and never have problems with their hearts in vets opinion.

I just want to shelf it for future reference that's all. Any suggestions, advice much appreciated. Might book in Jay or Jersey for X-ray so they can compare it with Jill's.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:31 am


I don't know what happened to her during the blood draw but am sorry it took a while for her to get back to normal.

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daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:10 am


Jill ate all her breakfast and my husband and I were so happy. But again she will not eat her lunch and is fast asleep. Every now and again waking up to eat a poop. Jay is going to vet tomorrow to get an X-ray so vet has a normal piggies X-ray (Jay normal? More like a fruit cake)to compare Jill's with. So might know some more soon. Thanks Lynx. Post when know more. In last 3 days Jill has gained 25grams.

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