Jill, Jaffa and Jupiter

Post Reply
bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:41 am


Cos is romaine.

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:42 am


What kind of lettuce is cos lettuce? Can you link to a picture?

Cos lettuce is what USA people call Romaine lettuce.

Parsley is also high in calcium
Damn Damn Damn! What about Watercress, Mint, Coriander? Broccoli leads to wind. What else is there? They won't eat Kale, capsicums, any root vegetable except for carrot. Maybe I will just take the girls to the fruit and vegetable shop and they can pick out what they want? Just kidding. Will give it more thought. Thanks Lynx. Oh tried hay in water and it's a no go. They ignored it, had to throw it out.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:00 am


You want to avoid romaine (though supposedly not high in calcium, it leads to excessive calcium deposits).

You want mild leafy greens. See:
http://www.guinealynx.info/chart.html
http://www.guinealynx.info/fave.html

User avatar
Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:18 pm


My piggies for last 30 years have gotten to eat grass when available cat grass when it is cuttable,Oak reg/green lettuce, cos lettuce, baby spinach leaves, spinach and silver beet. Carrot, cherry tomato, continental cucumber. Oxbox Timothy hay(not keen) Adult Oxbow pellets, Meadow hay. Now Jinx and Jill who have the blood Jill not so much very pale) will not be happy but am going to cut out the silverbeet and spinach(keeping the baby spinach) and replace with parsley and celery(cut small). They will not be happy but until Jinx never had a stone pig on food mentioned above.

Now they get fed 3 times a day, carrot a slice X 3, Cucumber 1/2 X 3, cherry tomato a slice X 3. Silverbeet and spinach a quarter of a leaf X 3, baby spinach 4-7 leaves X 3, lettuce-oak a hand full X 3, Cos lettuce half a leaf X 3, grass when have it a hand full X 3. Pellets 1/4 bowl and Timothy hay 1/4 bowl, meadow hay all over their pen. Any suggestions much appreciated.
That seems like a lot of veggies, but it's hard to know what size a slice is or what is meant by "cucumber 1/2." Half a cucumber or half a slice? Is that per pig or shared?

By way of comparison, all but one of our guys* get roughly 1/2 cup of veggies per pig twice a day (morning and evening), with the bulk of their veggies being green leaf and bibb lettuce with a few lower calcium vegetables rotated. Lynx's food chart is very helpful in comparing the amount of vitamin C and calcium in various vegetables.

As far as pellets, all but one* get roughly 1/8 cup daily, divided into two feedings. Pellets make up the smallest part of their diet. Think of a pyramid with hay at the bottom, comprising maybe 75% of their overall diet; roughly 20% of the food pyramid being lower calcium veggies; and roughly 5% being comprised of KMS pellets.

You mentioned feeding Oxbow pellets. Just a thought, but have you checked the ingredients to see if it contains calcium carbonate/limestone? I don't think the formula differs from what we get here in the US, but it might be worth verifying. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that calcium carbonate (sometimes listed on the bag as "limestone") can cause stone formation in guinea pigs who may already be predisposed.

Finally, as an added measure to try to prevent future stones, I would suggest used filtered water if you don't already do so. The pH/hardness in some water sources can be quite high and could be a factor. After we lost two guinea pigs back-to-back last year to bladder stones (after several years of not seeing any new cases), I switched to filtered water just to be on the safe side. The water source was the only thing in their diets that had changed, and could have been a factor.

[* our senior with GI problems gets fewer veggies and pellets than the others]

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:24 am


Half a cucumber or half a slice?
That is half a slice each 3 times a day. Yes the Oxbow pellets are the same as you would get and we only have these or normal rabbit pellets to choose from.

As to water we always use rain water as too much chlorine and other chemicals in tap water.

It seems the vet did not tell us that she is away for 2 weeks so looks like Jill and Jinx will have to wait till she comes back! So not happy about it!!! Thanks Sef.

User avatar
ItsaZoo
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:44 am


If it were me, I’d cut the spinach, parsley, and cos lettuce. I don’t feed those, but Lacey’s vet did ask one time if I fed spinach. I told her I didn’t feed any dark green leafy veggies due to calcium. The exception is a small dandelion leaf a few times a week in the summer.

If bloat isn’t a problem, cucumber is mostly water and may be beneficial if you suspect stones.

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:24 am


I told her I didn’t feed any dark green leafy veggies due to calcium.

Spinach has light green leaves. Silverbeet is dark green. I don't give dandelions as they can make for mushy poops. Jill is a bit windy. I find all my girls when syringe fed were windy. Thanks ItsaZoo.

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:34 am


Just got back from the vet with Jill. She had her urine spun and dip sticked. There were teeny crystals in it-too small to see at normal magnification had to have microscope magnification really high. NO blood in urine neither.

And her urine was off the charts as far as alkaline goes-orange is normal and hers was dark green on the deep stick.
He squeezed her bladder and I caught the pee. X-rays were all clear so that is a relief. Pissing down with rain today so will get supplies tomorrow.
He said to sprinkle on food so guessing just a pinch. What happens if she tastes the powder and goes off her food?
Going to buy a Mortar & Pestle to help crush tablet from K-Mart, I have always wanted one. but this one will be for the girl's. Put one for us on layby.

Will keep you posted, will remove Romaine lettuce as you call it, Parsley, and the large spinach leaves and silverbeet the last 2 depending on Jinx as she loves these and hates lettuce of any kind. Thanks again those who replied.

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:16 am


Are these okay? https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/85697/blackmores-vitamin-c-500-tablets Crush and sprinkle? Vet mentioned 500mg ones.

User avatar
Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:38 am


Just to clarify about baby spinach, it is considered a dark leafy green even though it is the same color as regular lettuce. As far as I know, baby spinach has the same nutritional values as regular spinach, which is high in oxalates and calcium.

500 mg C tablets are okay, but keep in mind that you only need 25-50 mg. A lower milligram tablet will be easier to dose accurately.

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:52 am


500 mg C tablets are okay, but keep in mind that you only need 25-50 mg. A lower milligram tablet will be easier to dose accurately.

He did not suggest dose. He just said when I feed the girls sprinkle some on their food. I said I feed them 3 times a day and he said doesn't matter just sprinkle all the girls bowls with crushed powder There are 3 doses of the tablets 250mg 500mg and 1000mgs. He did say one tablet would/should last a week.
As far as I know, baby spinach has the same nutritional values as regular spinach, which is high in oxalates and calcium.
I have to feed girls something. Either spinach or silverbeet as there is not much else I can feed them that they like. I think for now will sleep on it. Thanks Sef.

User avatar
Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:49 am


Green leaf, red leaf and bibb lettuces are all good choices. Take a look at Lynx's chart and find other veggies that are lower in calcium and can be fed regularly. Mine also get bits of zucchini and squash, small bits of carrot, small bits of the less acidic "grape" tomatoes, pieces of bell peppers (red, yellow and orange), and a few other things that I rotate for variety.

Really, if you're feeding a good, fortified pellet like Oxbow, and you're providing a fairly decent variety of veggies with vitamin C (but lower in calcium), supplementing with a synthetic Vit. C really shouldn't be needed. I'd just be careful with it. There is such a thing as "pseudo scurvy" which is too much vitamin C in the diet and, symptom-wise, mimics scurvy.

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:24 pm


Okay, Capsicum stop lights, squash, zucchini, grapes my girls will not touch. I have also tried things like kale, blueberries, parsnip, swede, turnip, bokchoy, broccoli to name some. My girls will not eat it these and more and we do not have the money to waste on food they won't eat. In fact with the parsley Jay is actually eating some green food! It's amazing!

I do try again and again for 4 weeks, like 4 weeks on the capsicum stop light, then 4 weeks on grapes, then 4 weeks on zucchini etc but they will not touch any of these and I am at my wits end with it. Vegetables are not cheap here what with the droughts and then the bush fires.

Jill was told to go onto Vitamin C because of the tiny crystals in her urine. So I am going to give it a go. Thanks Sef for your reply and advice.

User avatar
Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:48 pm


The nice thing is, if your guinea pigs won't eat certain veggies despite offering them several times, you can always eat them yourself. (Just to clarify, I feed grape tomatoes; not grapes the fruit, which aren't considered safe.)

On the alkaline urine, do you know what the range is on the dip sticks? Dark green doesn't mean much; it depends on the scale on the strips being used (many of which aren't all that precise). Guinea pigs normally have fairly alkaline urine (usually somewhere around 7.0 to 8.5), so one would expect it to register fairly high.

User avatar
daisymay
Supporter 2016-2020

Post   » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:38 am


I did not see the dip stick and it was fairly wet when I did see it. Orange was at the beginning and dark green was at the end. It looked like a dip stick your doctor would use. Going by pictures I saw on Google https://www.google.com/search?q=urine+dip+stick&tbm=isch&chi ... aO4WTYoexO0M

Jill's PH would be around 9.5 as really dark green. Plus he said it would help remove crystals in her pee. Is it worth while me buying some of these dip sticks? The vet said acid urine would not hurt Jill to pee where as alkaline pee would hurt her. He did say Jill's PH was off the charts. I know it doesn't help cause I didn't see range of the stick but the writing was all smudged and running. He said if girls getting too much vitamin C it wouldn't matter she'd just pee out what she didn't need. BUT when I sprinkle the vitamin C it will be a very small amount especially as they will be getting it 3 times a day as that is how many times a day they get fed.

To clarify I feed the girls a slice of cherry tomato each 3 times a day. We do not have grape tomatoes. We have Roma and for some disgusting reason chocolate tomatoes. I love tomatoes and chocolate but not together. Thanks Sef.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=chocolate+tomatoes

User avatar
Sef
Supporter in 2019

Post   » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:39 am


Apologies -- I meant to type 8.0-8.5 as the "middle/norm" on guinea pig urinary pH.

Again, guinea pigs and most herbivores have naturally alkaline urine (vs. the acidic urine cats, dogs, humans, etc.), so it's normal to see higher pH, but higher pH can also predispose guinea pigs and rabbits to UTIs and calcium carbonate bladder stones. I'd be interested to see if lowering the amount of overall calcium in Jill's diet has an effect.

As far as vitamin C, it is true that guinea pigs will pass excess vitamin C in the urine, but higher levels over time is not a good thing. Just be mindful of how much you are using.

Post Reply
156 posts