Interesting link on bladder stones

[Julian]

http://www.wugnet.de/mitglieder/wenzel/urolith.htm

Bladder issues seem to be a hot topic these days. I found this interesting.

[Josephine]

Thanks for the link. It seems as if the stones are combined types? Interesting, since they have different chemical compositions.

I don´t see anything about prognosis or follow-up treatment. Poor pigs.

[Julian]

Does Polycitra work on struvite stones? I know calcium is the most prevelent but I can´t seem to find any percentages on struvites. I know I am an anal accountant who wants to analyze the numbers to look for patterns.

It seems with further knowledge and better after- stone care more pigs are surviving. The follow up treatment sems to be critical. I know the mortality rate is still fairly high for this type of problem but do you know ( or could guess at ) the sucess rate?

[Lynx]

I always wondered if the kind of water the animals were drinking made a difference. My well water is slightly acid and very soft. The water I grew up on was quite hard with alot of dissolved calcium in it.

Interesting article. But I wish it had treatment suggestions too. Basically seems to state bladder stones more common in females, incidence of 1.3 - 5.2%, and that the stones are typically not just one calcium compound, but several (calcium- carbonate, Mg-ammonium- phosphate (struvit), calcium- phosphate, and calcium- oxalate).

Julian, you seem to have done alot of reading and had personal experience with stones. If you had the time or inclination, it would be great to write up something (maybe two parts) with your personal experiences (symptoms, diagnosis, treatment) and what you have learned about stones for the Reference and First Hand Accounts forum.

[Josephine]

As far as I know polycitra only works for Ca-based (oxalate) stones. I don´t even know if it works on Ca carbonate, which was more prevalent in this study. That is why it is SO important to have the stones analyzed.

I know Sharlene has had many pigs with Struvite (Mg based) stones. I don´t think she´s had a Ca based case in her herd. I think Ca oxalate may actually be in the minority.

As far as the mortality record.... Well, it depends upon the type of stone, the location, the treatment, and the time it takes to diagnose it. Cavies that lose a lot of weight and condition before being diagnosed are definitely at a disadvantage. Numbers, can´t even guess. Out of the close to 100 pigs I´ve owned (perhaps 50 to adulthood and beyond), I´ve never had a stone case. I´ve only done necropsies on dead pets the past 10 years or so with full diagnostics. Either I´ve been extremely lucky or...? I´ve had three urinary cases, but they turned out to be some form of cystitis/biliruben problems.

[Lynx]

Do you feed a timothy based pellet? City water? Hard, soft?

That is very encouraging. I know some people who have pigs with stones feel they are very prevalent. I wonder what the contributing factors are.

[Josephine]

I´ve only fed Oxbow´s Cavy Cuisine (Timothy) pellet for about 3-4 years? How long has it been out? I forget. I have city water and it is potable (at least somewhat)!

I´ve always done rotating fresh veggies and free choice grass hay.

[susan]

Did I understand that the presence of an infection will help cause these stones to form, or is the infection a by-product of the stone?

This article is extremely interesting. It states a lot of what my vet related to me when I went through our awful stone problems last month (thanks again for everyone´s help!).

What I also found interesting is the males with diarrhea having stones. My neutered boar (of unknown age) has always had occasional soft poops, which I figured was a predisposition and aggravated by too much fresh food (thanks to my husband -- is it me, or are men compulsive feeders?). Two days ago he came down with definite diarrhea, which I fixed via info on this website (thanks again!). Maybe I should have him checked for stones too?

Our vet also suspected calcium in the water as a culprit for the stone problem. I checked it out, and it has 45 (mg?), which I have no clue whether it´s too much or not. A comparison of other bottled waters seemed to place that amount at about an average measure; some had 200+, others had 10. I don´t know what´s an acceptable amount.

Anyway, thank you Julian!

[Josephine]

We do have to be careful since it´s NOT the AMOUNT of calcium, it´s the upset of the Ca:P ratio. Too much or too little Ca can cause problems when not balanced with the right amount of P.

I think the diarrhea is secondary to the stress caused and general malaise. Perhaps there is some upset of the GIT flora due to stress/illness?

The infection can cause struvite stones (Mg based). Usually, though, it is secondary in Ca cases, but I would have to check on that. The stones can also cause an infection due to the trauma.

[pinta]

I have a sow with Osteo Petrosis which is caused by 2 recessive genes, She´s a satin which is one of the genes, I think. The calcium was leaching from her bones and redepositing changing the shape of her bones. Her teeth were dark and ragged and her saliva glands calcified. She was dying before my eyes until we got a diagnosis, July 5. We put her on 150MG calcium lactate daily. Now she is back to normal - her weight is coming back on her teeth are perfect. No more hopping and limping.

The only thing keeping her alive is the calcium. She´s hyperthyroid(assumed to be by T-4 count) as well but has not been on her Tapazole for a few weeks. I suspect she might have to go back on since she´s acting a little frenetic lately. She gets a blood panel and xray early September.

Haven´t even pondered phosphorous. Should I?

[Lynx]

I ran across a vet somewhere who claimed pigs who frequently had urinary tract infections were more likely to have stones. Don´t remember where it was though.

[Josephine]

Pinta: Perhaps your sow has some metabolic condition which affects the Ca:P absorption? Since she is improving, I wouldn´t change her treatment much. She might have something where the Ca in her body isn´t bioavailable?