Warren to Run in 2020?

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Post   » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:13 am

And take a look at this graph:

After Bush and his wars, Obama trying to pay for them, trump's tax scam to give big business and the super wealthy tax breaks is resulting in once again, the build up of debt.

Interestingly, another method of looking at your business could be considered -- cars and trucks breaking down because people aren't doing the maintenance, aren't buying new ones (no idea if this is true or not).

You live in a microcosm. What looks good to you may not be at all good for millions in america.

Costs are really shooting up for anyone who is considering buying or leasing a car.

Old cars everywhere: Average vehicle age hits all-time high


That was a great article, Sef! It gives a reasoned approach to the economy of recent years.

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Post   » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:51 pm

The economy is not doing well for me, or my family, or anyone I know, for that matter. And it's not easy for anyone to make money. I need to find a job, but I haven't worked since my firstborn, 27 years ago, and I'm going to be 60 years old next year. I have a bad knee and a bad elbow. So don't tell me that anyone can make money if they want to. And I even have a college degree, and a thesis short of a Master's.

I have real fears about losing my home.

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Post   » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:31 pm

I don't know what I'd do if I had to look for a job. My master's degree is not worth much by now. I am thankful for social security.

I am sorry you are in this situation, lisam. I wish there were easy solutions to your problems.

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Post   » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:19 am

I'm so sorry, lisam. That is lousy, and another prime example of why it's so unfair for some (generally those who aren't struggling) to have the mentality that if you're not making it in the US, you're not trying. You're a loser. It's simply not true; not for most. Sure, there are people out there who "game" the system and would rather get a hand-out from the government, but I firmly believe that most people want to work and take care of themselves and their families. Unfortunately, though, all of these great new jobs supposedly created under the Trump administration largely equate to low-wage with little to no benefits.

The sad reality is that many people are just one catastrophic event away from financial ruin. My husband and I were nearly there ourselves at one time, and we both have college degrees. And again, no, Trump didn't create some of these problems---but don't tell me that he gives a flying shit about the human condition, or about anybody but himself and his rich, powerful cronies. Elizabeth Warren has worked her entire life to help the working class and those without a voice, and that's why she has my vote. She won't win, because this will NOT be a legitimate election, but she has my admiration and my vote nonetheless.

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Post   » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:12 pm

"Sure, there are people out there who "game" the system and would rather get a hand-out from the government..."

Just a note here to say most people who need help are just getting by. Government help still leaves you in poverty.

I believe there are republicans who somehow think government help goes to those who don't need it and then they are living "high on the hog". This is a grave misconception. From 2016:

20 Years Since Welfare's Overhaul, Results Are Mixed

The startling rise of disability in America
The federal government spends more money each year on cash payments for disabled former workers than it spends on food stamps and welfare combined. Yet people relying on disability payments are often overlooked in discussions of the social safety net. The vast majority of people on federal disability do not work.[1] Yet because they are not technically part of the labor force, they are not counted among the unemployed.

In other words, people on disability don't show up in any of the places we usually look to see how the economy is doing. But the story of these programs -- who goes on them, and why, and what happens after that -- is, to a large extent, the story of the U.S. economy. It's the story not only of an aging workforce, but also of a hidden, increasingly expensive safety net.

For the past six months, I've been reporting on the growth of federal disability programs. I've been trying to understand what disability means for American workers, and, more broadly, what it means for poor people in America nearly 20 years after we ended welfare as we knew it. Here's what I found.
The Original 'Welfare Queen'
It's a pernicious stereotype, but it was coined in reference to a real woman named Linda Taylor. But her misdeeds were far more numerous and darker than welfare fraud. This week: how politicians used one outlier's story to turn the public against government programs for the poor.

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Post   » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:48 pm

Everything I read about the tax cuts indicated it was going to be an expensive failure that was only going to make the rich richer at our expense. I understand that a very high percentage of the gain actually went to foreign investors directly or indirectly.

It isn't that high but still considerable.


Post   » Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:27 pm

Lisam I am very sorry things are not working out finacially. When I said anyone can make money, I think I was thinking more about the Stock market. I appolgise if I made you feel bad in any way, it was not my intention.

Once again, not defending Trump and in fact as I said, I don't beleive he has much to do with the economy one way or another. However, to say this isn't a good eceonomy is not accurate. There are factual metrics we use to measure. It isn't about articles and opinions or stretching facts to make things fit a political agenda. GDP, Unemployment, many other metrics tell the story accurately. There is always a negative about one economic indicator or other but almost every one of them points to this not being just a great economy but one of the best ever. Can it all fall apart? Of course it can, and probably will, as most of them have.

As for not being able to find employment, I think the reasons Lisam wrote of may be a contributing factor. It is very unfortunate companies are not hiring people at 60 and those who have all kinds of diverse expereinces, but haven't worked in many years. However, those would be the reasons more than the state of the economy.

Sef, I don't think Trump does care a flying shit about the human condition and I never said he did.
He sucks, I've said it over and over but people don't beleive me. Because I can say the economy is red hot does not make me a Trump lover. I voted for him because I refused to have Hillary Clinton shoved down my throat by people who kept telling me, "oh she isn't that bad". I didn't agree but I'm not going back to that.

I can't find it now but somewhere I saw written I lived in a microcosm. I'm a lot of things and anyone can say whatever they like, none of it bothers me, but living in a microcosm?

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Post   » Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:08 pm

It isn't about articles and opinions or stretching facts to make things fit a political agenda.
And you're not at all guilty of this? "Best ever" economy? That's straight out of the mouth of Trump. What about the post-WWII boom? 1950's expansion?

The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in the United States expanded 2.10 percent in the third quarter of 2019 over the same quarter of the previous year. GDP Annual Growth Rate in the United States averaged 3.20 percent from 1948 until 2019, reaching an all time high of 13.40 percent in the fourth quarter of 1950 and a record low of -3.90 percent in the second quarter of 2009. Source: U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis

Same with unemployment and a few other economic indicators.

Again, I live and work in the real world. You can argue that this is a "red hot" economy all you want, and maybe for a lot of people it is that, but spend a little time at the food bank some Saturday and see how some of the people standing in line for a hot meal feel about it.

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Post   » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:30 pm

The link Sef posted has the information you seek to put things into perspective.
https://www.businessinsider.com/9-charts-comparing-trump-eco ... tions-2019-9

I think each person will focus on a different thing depending on what they are looking for. What I see is everything going along fine and him along for the ride. And I read how things he's done have held back some growth (like the import taxes).

But the economy is still not working for many people.

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Supporter in 2019

Post   » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:05 am


Our church sponsored “Clothe a Child” again this year, and we had almost double the number of children in need of clothing from last year. A record number. The family that husband and I shopped with was a hard-working woman who had lost her manufacturing job earlier this year and was trying to support herself and her three kids on a low-paying job with no benefits.

Our community outreach program just sponsored a new family for 2020—a grandmother raising her two grandsons. She works hard as a housekeeper and does get some government assistance, but it’s simply not enough. She told us that it was really difficult for her to ask for help, but she really had no choice.

My own father, who is 81, is barely surviving thanks to the enormous medical bills that my mother left him with when she died two years ago. He worked hard his entire life but now has no savings, no retirement, major credit card debt and a reverse mortgage on his home. He’s too proud to declare bankruptcy and would rather do without. We try to help him as much as we can, but he doesn’t like to ask.

People shouldn’t have to live like this. Not in a country like ours where there is so much wealth. As I said before, there is a mentality by many that if you aren’t making it in America, you’re not trying hard enough. Trump and his cronies certainly see it that way, and I foresee the economic gap continuing to widen under his policies.


Post   » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:40 pm

Post World War II economy? Ok, got me there but 100 million people had to die to kick start it.

Guilty? No not at all, guilt is not something I do, I don't need to be forgiven. I'm not saying anything because Trump says it, I can't say it anymore than I already have. I don't really even follow the news where it involves politics. I've said it over and over but if I represent Trump go ahead and hate me. I have much better hair however, honest I do. EP?

As for living in the real world - here's my real world: I came home after 17 years at war with a hole in my arm for a habit and visions through my scope seared on my brain of young men flopping around dying when I tried to sleep. I kicked the habit but not the visions and went to work with my brothers at our family auto station, It was weeks from foreclosure. I took control because none of my brothers had any discipline or business acumen. I din't have much either but I was wiling to listen to people who did. My brothers and I sold the classic cars we had been building since our teenage years and raised 165k, we borrowed another 500, paid our debt off, began to buy some new equipment, and trucks.

I worked along with my brothers 18 hours a day, 7 days a week for 2 years non stop. We worked holidays, birthdays, whatever and after 2 years we didn't slow down much. We pay our gas pumpers $15 an hour when everyone else pays them $9. They are all full time and have the opportunity to work overtime if they want to increase what they make. We buy them life insurance and offer pretty good medical coverage that we contribute to. I am discussing a 401k plan for them with our financial adviser. Our gas business loses money but the economy being what it is has made it so the other businesses make enough to offset it. This allows us to help about 8 families of people with a member or two that have a job at our place in the business losing money. So the economy is sure working for them and they aren't rich Republicans.

We've been fortunate, I understand that, we have shared that good fortune with our employees. We have helped several with legal bills, visas, bringing family from other countries, loaning money without interest, once even a down payment on a house, etc etc. We live in an affluent area that is white upper middle class and believe me, our business would be better if we didn't hire these "damn immigrants" and then give them the means to be running around in oweer town, but we don't care.

We could not have done any of this in a different economy, money was cheap, banks were loaning, there was a lot of money around (I realize not for everyone) and it helped. So yeah the economy is working for me and I realize it isn't working for everyone. It never has and never will. There will always be food banks and places where people go to get a hot meal but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy what we've worked for if we are responsible citizens and share it with the employees :(who we've come to think of as family)who helped us. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back but if you think I'm just taking, not living in the real world, and a country club Trump republican, you're dead wrong.


Post   » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:12 am

My original point was however you see this economy Trump will be hard to beat because for so many it is such a great economy and he will get credit, even though he had very little to do with it, that's how it works. I didn't make it that way, I was just stating a point in elections

That's what I said. I'm not Trump loving. I'm not telling people they aren't working hard enough if they aren't enjoying success. I don't believe that and never have but it seems you think that.

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Post   » Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:04 am

I am very happy things are working for you and certainly, it sure sounds like you are doing things right for your employees. Not all small business owners do as well. Here, we have had closures of several long time businesses.

I think the takeaway from this discussion is that an economy that looks good to some, has not produced for others.

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Supporter in 2019

Post   » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:27 pm

Agree. And thank you for dialing down the rhetoric, Lynx. Obviously we all have some very strong viewpoints here, but it doesn't need to get personal. That was never my intent.

Original topic was Elizabeth Warren as Presidential candidate, and I agree with GPIG's earlier comment (before the discussion went south) that she doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning. Again, she's smart, fearless, committed, and a tireless advocate for consumer rights and the middle-class in America---but I fear those are the very same reasons why she won't win. She's too much of a threat to the wealthy and powerful in this country (and, it seems, Russia).

Interestingly, I saw a "Andrew Yang for President" yard sign today.

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Post   » Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:48 pm

When it comes to a snowball's chance in hell, that has "Andrew Yang" written all over it.

Interestingly, I ran across an article that mentioned Obama was not getting behind any single candidate but in private was telling rich people they need not be afraid of Warren:

Behind closed doors, Obama praises Elizabeth Warren to wealthy donors
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/12/23/1907521/-Behind- ... althy-donors

I still think she'd make a fantastic president.


Post   » Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:16 pm

Me too Sef, agree. I took a good chunk of time to read about Elizabeth Warren the other night and it turns out I do like her a lot. Maybe she can tighten it up. Not sure why Biden and Sanders are in front of her, I don't think that is wise but again I don't follow it much so what do I know.

Yes Lynx, the economy does not work for all and I too wish companies would provide better health care and wages to the rank and file. It is not good all around. The other problem with this economy is one of the catalysts that make it go, Debt.

America has a huge problem with debt. This economy could fall apart in days again, I'm well aware of that. I should have said in my post we used the money we borrowed to "consolidate" debt along with buying couple trucks and new equipment. We have almost paid it all back. I insisted on that and it has been a fight, but I know I'm right in that situation.

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Post   » Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:05 pm

Our local mall has been suffering greatly. Lots of closures in the last 18 months and now three more. The people who had bought it some years ago did a fab job revitalizing it but it apparently wasn't enough.
https://www.dailyprogress.com/dailyprogress/more-store-closu ... 4ff9d72.html


Post   » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:58 am

Is the problem at the mall exasperated by all of the online shopping that seems to be going gangbusters lately? I'm not an online shopper, I like to look and touch what I'm going to buy but I think I'm in the minority these days and unfortunately with all the small stores closing my options are narrowing to Home Depot, Lowes, Wallmart and Target. I used to love Hardware stores but not many of them were able to survive

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Supporter in 2019

Post   » Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:29 am

That's a shame, Lynx. Looks like a very nice mall. We lost KMart, JCPenney and Sears this past year, along with Elder-Beerman (a semi-upscale department store). Not good for a town our size.

Speaking of hardware stores...somehow, almost miraculously, L.H. Strum on the downtown square (which opened its doors in 1850) has managed to survive:


360-degree view of the inside:
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x886e62451603f92 ... owE3oECAwQBg

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