*ignoring antibreeder invective and stories which are exception to the rule*
I didn´t call you a hypocrite, Teresa - I just said it seemed that way from my perspective, but thank you for explaining. From what I gather, you would have preferred the media be more involved with the prior one? Again we disagree, I would rather just get the animals in homes as quickly as possible, but my standards aren´t as stringent as yours - I think a lot of people you deny would be great pet owners. But that´s okay - disagreement is what our country is all about.
"This venom directed towards Teresa is personal." Josephine, I hope you don´t think I was spouting venom when I was honestly asking a question. The venom spouting seems to be more directed at me than Teresa, in fact. I would hate to think there is a forum in America where questioning someone out of curiosity is frowned upon just because the person being questioned is popular.
My questions are answered and I´m satisfied.
URGENT-CA-PHS Shelter (Bay Area)
You´d have to awfully hungry to eat cavy. There just isn´t much meat on ´em. Kinda like buffalo chicken wings. And like crab legs they´d be an awful lot of work to clean for the return you´d get on them. Still, I understand with shake-n-bake they can be quite palatable.
Martyr seems to be a good word for Teresa. There´s a whole lotta breast beating and "Gosh, aren´t I wonderful for doing this? Poor me. I spend sooooo much time/money/energy on this for just no reward whatsoever..." publicity.
I know and admire some real re-homing groups. Almost any greyhound re-homing agency doesn´t have this personality cult that I see at cavyspirit. They are also much more effective at getting animals into homes. There isn´t the "My way or the highway" attitude there. They make sure the dogs have good homes but they don´t turn people off from the animal in the process. Many (not all) don´t bash breeders or the racing industry. They realize without them there wouldn´t be these animals to know and love.
Y´all manage to shut down breeders there wouldn´t be any pigs in 3-4 years. Y´all seem to love your animals but you want to go out of your way to make it difficult for new people to experience the same pleasure. I had a lady come buy a pig from me this week. She´d been checking the county humane society regularly and not finding any.
Lastly (for now) you might want to be aware of methods of euthanasia. "Etymology: Greek, easy death....the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy" That way when your precious little Snookums prolapses their rectum, develops cecitis or has an unfortunate but not quite fatal experience with a dog late on a Sunday night they don´t have to suffer until Monday morning when you can give them a stressful car ride to the vet for a shot. Leaving them in agony for 8 or 12 hours does not make you a good Piggy Mom
Martyr seems to be a good word for Teresa. There´s a whole lotta breast beating and "Gosh, aren´t I wonderful for doing this? Poor me. I spend sooooo much time/money/energy on this for just no reward whatsoever..." publicity.
I know and admire some real re-homing groups. Almost any greyhound re-homing agency doesn´t have this personality cult that I see at cavyspirit. They are also much more effective at getting animals into homes. There isn´t the "My way or the highway" attitude there. They make sure the dogs have good homes but they don´t turn people off from the animal in the process. Many (not all) don´t bash breeders or the racing industry. They realize without them there wouldn´t be these animals to know and love.
Y´all manage to shut down breeders there wouldn´t be any pigs in 3-4 years. Y´all seem to love your animals but you want to go out of your way to make it difficult for new people to experience the same pleasure. I had a lady come buy a pig from me this week. She´d been checking the county humane society regularly and not finding any.
Lastly (for now) you might want to be aware of methods of euthanasia. "Etymology: Greek, easy death....the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy" That way when your precious little Snookums prolapses their rectum, develops cecitis or has an unfortunate but not quite fatal experience with a dog late on a Sunday night they don´t have to suffer until Monday morning when you can give them a stressful car ride to the vet for a shot. Leaving them in agony for 8 or 12 hours does not make you a good Piggy Mom
-
Josephine
- Little Jo Wheek
Cecitis? That´s a new one on me. Too bad it doesn´t exist.
Last time I checked prolapsed rectums weren´t causes for euthanasia either. Put in a purse-string suture and they´re cured. Not common in cavies or other animals also unless they had severe diarrhea.
No cavies in 3-4 years? That won´t happen of course, since there´s always a breeder or inexperienced pet owner, pet shop, etc. to supply the rescues. There wouldn´t be any need for us if there wasn´t an overpopulation problem, of course.
Last time I checked prolapsed rectums weren´t causes for euthanasia either. Put in a purse-string suture and they´re cured. Not common in cavies or other animals also unless they had severe diarrhea.
No cavies in 3-4 years? That won´t happen of course, since there´s always a breeder or inexperienced pet owner, pet shop, etc. to supply the rescues. There wouldn´t be any need for us if there wasn´t an overpopulation problem, of course.
Last edited by Josephine on Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You´re right, you should be prepared in advance. That´s why I encourage you to learn what you can do to give your animal a quick easy death when necessary.
Nor would I let my kid suffer because of my pigs. My kid will always come first. I can ease a pig out quite humanely without spending a $100 to do it. I see that as taking food out of my family´s mouth. I can think of lots of better things to do with that money.
Nor would I let my kid suffer because of my pigs. My kid will always come first. I can ease a pig out quite humanely without spending a $100 to do it. I see that as taking food out of my family´s mouth. I can think of lots of better things to do with that money.
-
Ciaytee
- Almost Inbred
Whereas cracking a pig´s skull because he has the wrong markings is the epitome of human kindness.
Get real. You really believe death is a better alternative to temporary pain? Damn. You must go through more pigs than women do pantyhose.
Yet again, another person is using the ´this doesn´t apply to me, so it doesn´t apply to anyone, anywhere´ argument. It´s really not a difficult concept. I don´t understand why people can´t grasp it.
Just because your area does not have a pig population problem in no way affects the population in other areas.
Repeat after me, people. "I am not the center of the universe. What I see/do/experience is not the same as others see/do/experience. There is a world outside my doorstep."
I´m certain Teresa would thank the breeders for the wonderful gift of homeless pigs if she didn´t have so many dropped off on her doorstep. What was the number, Teresa? Something like 500 in the SF Bay area in the past year alone?
She cleans up the messes the breeders and petstores make. I don´t completely agree with her ideology and methods, either, but since I don´t have a rescue, I don´t have the audacity to criticize her for how she runs hers. And if you´re not out there trying to find homes for pigs (and despite what´s going on in your area, there are population problems in other areas), then you really don´t have the basis to criticize her, either.
Get real. You really believe death is a better alternative to temporary pain? Damn. You must go through more pigs than women do pantyhose.
Yet again, another person is using the ´this doesn´t apply to me, so it doesn´t apply to anyone, anywhere´ argument. It´s really not a difficult concept. I don´t understand why people can´t grasp it.
Just because your area does not have a pig population problem in no way affects the population in other areas.
Repeat after me, people. "I am not the center of the universe. What I see/do/experience is not the same as others see/do/experience. There is a world outside my doorstep."
I´m certain Teresa would thank the breeders for the wonderful gift of homeless pigs if she didn´t have so many dropped off on her doorstep. What was the number, Teresa? Something like 500 in the SF Bay area in the past year alone?
She cleans up the messes the breeders and petstores make. I don´t completely agree with her ideology and methods, either, but since I don´t have a rescue, I don´t have the audacity to criticize her for how she runs hers. And if you´re not out there trying to find homes for pigs (and despite what´s going on in your area, there are population problems in other areas), then you really don´t have the basis to criticize her, either.
-
Ciaytee
- Almost Inbred
And another thing. If living up to the responsibility you chose to accept by bringing animals into this world and into your home means that you cannot live up to your responsibilities to your family, then it is highly irresponsible of you to have animals.
You owe both your family and the animals more than that.
You owe both your family and the animals more than that.
You´d have to awfully hungry to eat cavy. There just isn´t much meat on ´em. Kinda like buffalo chicken wings.
And like crab legs they´d be an awful lot of work to clean for the return you´d get on them.
Well, "nastybreeder" is an excellent moniker for you. Perhaps you should add "Ignorant" to it. Cavies form a staple part of the diet in South America. Certainly in Peru where they are a standard menu item in restaurants and you can buy small bales of hay in the market to feed your stock kept in boxes in your highrise apartment.
And please don´t raise the hackneyed whine about how your kids come first. Duh. But the cold hard fact is that if you have to make a choice between your kids or paying for medical care for animals you brought into the world - what the hell are you doing breeding? You obviously can´t afford it.
Yup, nastybreeder suits you to a tee.
And like crab legs they´d be an awful lot of work to clean for the return you´d get on them.
Well, "nastybreeder" is an excellent moniker for you. Perhaps you should add "Ignorant" to it. Cavies form a staple part of the diet in South America. Certainly in Peru where they are a standard menu item in restaurants and you can buy small bales of hay in the market to feed your stock kept in boxes in your highrise apartment.
And please don´t raise the hackneyed whine about how your kids come first. Duh. But the cold hard fact is that if you have to make a choice between your kids or paying for medical care for animals you brought into the world - what the hell are you doing breeding? You obviously can´t afford it.
Yup, nastybreeder suits you to a tee.
-
Julian
- I GAVE, dammit!
My kids and I would fast if it meant having the money to treat one of our animals with respect at the end of their lives. I believe what goes around comes around. In the long run, it has proven true in my life.
Although the emergency vet fee´s haven´t taken food out of our mouths, they did require a sacrifice. I hope one lesson I have taught my children is that doing the right thing usually costs something. Sometimes it´s money; sometimes it´s friendship,popularity whatever.... If they are brave enough to do this, I´ll be a very happy Mom.
Although the emergency vet fee´s haven´t taken food out of our mouths, they did require a sacrifice. I hope one lesson I have taught my children is that doing the right thing usually costs something. Sometimes it´s money; sometimes it´s friendship,popularity whatever.... If they are brave enough to do this, I´ll be a very happy Mom.
Why can´t you have both? Respect and an easy non-veterinary death. What does the vet do that´s so special? You scoop it up and take it on a car ride to the vet (stressful situation). Vet handles it some (more stress). Gives it a shot (ouch! more stress) to relax the muscles to the point the cease to function and it dies of hypoxia.
My way: Place the pig in a box with bedding...seems like another cage. Add some co2, it gets sleepy and sleepier until it gradually passes away from hypoxia. No struggle, no car ride, no needle stick. Same result. Only I don´t have to wait for an appointment time to come around. I´m out in the barn at midnight and find a boar with intense colic in agony. I can deal with it in minutes, can you?
This doesn´t come easily to anyone. Everytime you lose an animal its a sacrifice. It IS a loss! I frequently still cry and cuss over the necessity of it. It doesn´t need to be a monetary sacrifice though.
Put another way, that $100 for the vet could buy a heck of a lot of pig chow.
My way: Place the pig in a box with bedding...seems like another cage. Add some co2, it gets sleepy and sleepier until it gradually passes away from hypoxia. No struggle, no car ride, no needle stick. Same result. Only I don´t have to wait for an appointment time to come around. I´m out in the barn at midnight and find a boar with intense colic in agony. I can deal with it in minutes, can you?
This doesn´t come easily to anyone. Everytime you lose an animal its a sacrifice. It IS a loss! I frequently still cry and cuss over the necessity of it. It doesn´t need to be a monetary sacrifice though.
Put another way, that $100 for the vet could buy a heck of a lot of pig chow.
Thanks, I´m glad you like the screenname. Only I´m not ignorant. I know they eat them in Peru and Bolivia. They´re also important in some religious rites. They tend to grow ´em bigger there though. More worthwhile to eat. I know of someone just left for Boliva today to get a goat project going in Bolivia to improve people´s lives there. She was telling me of a companion project to increase the meat production abilities of cavies as well. ´Coure if you stew ´em you don´t waste as much. If you are really interested in improving the world I can put you in touch with donating to either project.
I never said I´d crack a mis marked animal. It´s easier for me to sell them as pets.
Yup, this is a good one. I suggest we ALL do it, even the rescue folk. Repeat after me, people. "I am not the center of the universe. What I see/do/experience is not the same as others see/do/experience. There is a world outside my doorstep."
Actually, I can afford to both have a family/life and cavies quite easily. I do this by not running the animals to a vet everytime they sneeze. I´ve educated many vets in my practice on cavies. Got tired of paying them for the privilege though. Eventually I noticed that whether I treated them or the vet treated them the outcome was the same. One time I had an abscess lanced. I thought the animal should have been rehydrated as well but the vet insisted he was fine. Took him home and he was dead the next day. I should have stomped my feet harder about it. Live and learn.
I never said I´d crack a mis marked animal. It´s easier for me to sell them as pets.
Yup, this is a good one. I suggest we ALL do it, even the rescue folk. Repeat after me, people. "I am not the center of the universe. What I see/do/experience is not the same as others see/do/experience. There is a world outside my doorstep."
Actually, I can afford to both have a family/life and cavies quite easily. I do this by not running the animals to a vet everytime they sneeze. I´ve educated many vets in my practice on cavies. Got tired of paying them for the privilege though. Eventually I noticed that whether I treated them or the vet treated them the outcome was the same. One time I had an abscess lanced. I thought the animal should have been rehydrated as well but the vet insisted he was fine. Took him home and he was dead the next day. I should have stomped my feet harder about it. Live and learn.
SHOP AMAZON